Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice... - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 3:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Hello All,

I'm hoping someone here can give me some advice (I know...a dangerous thing as everyone has an opinion. ).

I purchased a 2002 CBR 954RR used and the previous owner replaced the stock exhaust and can. The can is a Jardine RT-One but I have no idea what the exhaust is. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reach the previous owner to find out. All I know for sure is the aftermarket exhaust does not have the HTEV.

I just had the bike tuned (valve adjustments, plugs, etc) and it's revealed what I've read is a to be expected dead spot/power drop starting at about 5500 RPMs and continuing until at least 8000 RPMs (I haven't been able to get it higher as there's pretty much nothing past 5500 and I only reached 8000 by downshifting from 6th).

At any rate, I've purchased a Power Commander III USB and downloaded all maps available from their website. Unfortuntely none of them are for the RT-One pipe. I will get the bike to an authorized tuner and have a custom map done, but I would like to ride the bike in the interim (about 30-60 days until I can save for the tune session).

I'm hoping someone can suggest one of the "official" maps as an interim map I can use. If most people here feel that I should just not ride it until I can get a custom map done, I'll leave it parked. I've just been itching to ride it for over 4 months (had to save up for the tune-up) and would like to get some road time on it.

Thanks in advance.

Here's the list of official maps from their site:

Zero Map
Completely stock bike
Erion Racing bolt-on exhaust and stock air filter
Akrapovic full exhaust and stock air filter
Micron "Serpent" full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Two Brothers Racing half system (eliminates HTEV) and stock or aftermarket air filter
Two Brothers Racing full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Two Brothers Racing bolt-on exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Moriwaki full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Arrow full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
M4 full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Kerker full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
D&D full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Arrow 1/2 system exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Yoshimura 1/2 system exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Erion Racing full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Yoshimura full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
Hindle full exhaust, Stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Completely stock bike
European Model, Bos oval open slip-on and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Blue Flame slip-on and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Carbon Can Co aluminum slip-on and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Blue Flame twin port slip-on and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Akrapovic full exhaust with Evolution muffler and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, G Force slip-on and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Arrow slip-on and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Micron "Serpent" full exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Simmi end can & link pipe exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
European German Model, MIG open seat slip-ons, stock or aftermarket air filter and Dynojet O2 Sensor eliminator Kit
European German Model, Catalytic convertor in tailpipe, Bos ECE approved slip-on and Dynojet O2 Sensor eliminator Kit
European German Model, Catalytic convertor in tailpipe, Leo Vince ECE approved slip-on (free flow without chambers), Db Killer and Dynojet O2 Sensor eliminator Kit
European German Model, Catalytic convertor in tailpipe, Leo Vince racing slip-on and Dynojet O2 Sensor eliminator Kit
European Model, Akrapovic slip-on exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Laser half system with Hot Cam silencer and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Yoshimura RS-3 Tri-Oval half system exhaust and stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Leo Vince half system (removes HTEV) and Stock or aftermarket air filter
European German Model, Hurric ECE approved silencer with Db Killer, O2 sensor eliminator kit installed and Stock or aftermarket air filter
European Model, Arrow full race exhaust and Stock or aftermarket air filter
Akrapovic full race exhaust 66mm velocity stacks, Alpha Technik Ram air air ducts , Pin 17 (on grey connector) connected to 12 Volts (switched), O2 Sensor eliminator installed.
European model-Devil Trophy high mount half exhaust, Stock or aftermarket air filter

Last edited by oldfart; 04-16-2009 at 3:39 PM.
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post #2 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 4:37 PM
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Id run a similar pipe map, so any open ended race can map will all be around 80% close. All the maps that are matched for pipe and filter are around 90% close to what the bike requires. There are no two bikes that have the same fuelling.. Besides, unless your flat out 24/7 you should not do no harm..
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post #3 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 4:46 PM
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

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Originally Posted by oldfart View Post
a to be expected dead spot/power drop starting at about 5500 RPMs and continuing until at least 8000 RPMs (I haven't been able to get it higher as there's pretty much nothing past 5500 and I only reached 8000 by downshifting from 6th).
There is something _seriously_ wrong if it won't rev more than halfway round the tach.
Get it straight back to whatever "tuner" did that to it!
Also, disconnect the PC and see if it improves as PC's do die.
Was it like this when the "tuner" gave it back to you?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #4 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 4:52 PM
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Yeah I agree, get it looked at ASAP!!! That bike is sick.
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post #5 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 4:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

I haven't had it dyno-tuned yet. I'm waiting on the Power Commander to come in. The shop that did the tune-up (valve adjustment, plugs, and fluids) recommended that I get a Power Commander to compensate for the power drop caused by the aftermarket pipe and exhaust.

I was looking for advice on which (if any) "official" map I can ride it with until I can get it to a dyno shop for a custom map.
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post #6 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 5:00 PM
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

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Originally Posted by oldfart View Post
I haven't had it dyno-tuned yet. I'm waiting on the Power Commander to come in. The shop that did the tune-up (valve adjustment, plugs, and fluids) recommended that I get a Power Commander to compensate for the power drop caused by the aftermarket pipe and exhaust.
You took the bike in there running fine, right?
They gave it back to you in this condition telling you to spend another few hundred dollars to get it to run?
I'd be _very_ concerned about the so-called valve adjustment.
Put the original pipes and muffler back on it and see if it improves.
I've never heard of a fuel-injected bike this messed up just from putting a full system on it.
Thousands of people put full systems on their bikes every week without bothering with any fuel mapping.
Are all four header pipes similar temperatures?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #7 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 5:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Thanks bladeracer, I'll make an appointment with the shop and take it back.

I don't have the factory pipe and exhaust since the bike had this aftermarket system on it when I bought it from the previous owner.

The bike didn't have this flat spot when I brought it in for the valve adjustment but the shop did say that almost all of the valves were out of spec and the plugs appeared to be hand-tightened & had dis-colored tips.

I'm guessing the previous owner "jury-rigged" the bike's state of tune to mask the flat spot, but I can't say for sure (I just know that there are lots of fairing bits and pieces still missing...but that's another story. ).
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post #8 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 5:08 PM
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

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Originally Posted by oldfart View Post
The bike didn't have this flat spot when I brought it in for the valve adjustment but the shop did say that almost all of the valves were out of spec and the plugs appeared to be hand-tightened & had dis-colored tips.
Then it's very clear that the mechanic has screwed something up.
Maybe they don't know how to measure the clearances or they've set the timing incorrectly or some valves aren't closing but it's a _serious_ problem.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #9 of 15 Old 04-16-2009, 5:35 PM
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Sorry chap, did not fully read your prob...

On my phone..

Real sorry for poor advice!!

Bladeracers on the ball! please feel free to give me a slap..
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post #10 of 15 Old 04-21-2009, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

I just dropped the bike off at a respected tuner in my area to look the bike over to see what (if anything) the other shop may have messed up. They're also going to do a custom map for me once the bike is running correctly.

I'll update this thread with what the tuner discovers so others can learn from my misfortune.
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post #11 of 15 Old 05-02-2009, 9:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Hello All,

Here's an update on what the tuner found so far:

1) The power drop off was more severe than I 1st thought. On the plus side, it was due entirely to a misrouted fuel line.

2) Now that the bike runs "normally", he found it severely down on power. On his Mustang Dyno, it's putting out about 90 rwhp. He feels that the cam timing is off as well as the bike obviously needing a map tune. He's confident he can get it to 110-120 rwhp.

3) Turns out, this tuner worked on my bike before for the previous owner, so he's familiar with it and has the tuning data from the last time he worked on it.

4) On the "really cool" side, he's willing to teach me how to work on engines. I've got to "volunteer" my time in his shop on the odd Saturdays, but I'm really excited for the opportunity to learn from this guy as he comes highly rated from the local AFM racers.

I'll let everyone know how the final ride comes out once we're done.
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post #12 of 15 Old 05-02-2009, 10:04 AM
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

That's great news, sounds like you've found someone good to take care of it.

And nice score on getting the "free" education. What a great opportunity for some solid knowledge. (Yes, I'm jealous. )
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post #13 of 15 Old 05-02-2009, 10:09 AM
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfart View Post
Hello All,

Here's an update on what the tuner found so far:

1) The power drop off was more severe than I 1st thought. On the plus side, it was due entirely to a misrouted fuel line.

2) Now that the bike runs "normally", he found it severely down on power. On his Mustang Dyno, it's putting out about 90 rwhp. He feels that the cam timing is off as well as the bike obviously needing a map tune. He's confident he can get it to 110-120 rwhp.

3) Turns out, this tuner worked on my bike before for the previous owner, so he's familiar with it and has the tuning data from the last time he worked on it.

4) On the "really cool" side, he's willing to teach me how to work on engines. I've got to "volunteer" my time in his shop on the odd Saturdays, but I'm really excited for the opportunity to learn from this guy as he comes highly rated from the local AFM racers.

I'll let everyone know how the final ride comes out once we're done.
Excellent news :-)
The on-the-job training is invaluable.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #14 of 15 Old 05-03-2009, 3:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

Well, after my 1st day "on the job"...all I can say is Wow! It was a ton of fun but a ton of work as well. I am so sore today.

He showed me how to do the compression testing and leak down test. We took a look at the cam timing but that was OK. At any rate, turns out my bike has about 40% leakage. He said that if this was a race bike, anything over 5% leakage would warrant an engine teardown. Since it's a commuter, he says it's really up to me if I want to ride it as is or teardown the engine.

He suggests that I not spend the money having him or anyone else rebuild the engine (mainly the rings...his guess without opening it up the rest of the way is that it's leaking past the rings). His advice is to pick up a good, used motor instead and use my motor to learn the rebuild process myself. The other option is to leave the bike on stands in my garage and go through the rebuild myself and hope for the best, but he doesn't recommend that until I have more experience under my belt.

So, at this point, I'll button everything up and run my bike as is (although way down on power) for commuting and save up for a motor later this summer.

Thanks for the advice bladeracer. It was the best decision I made to take the bike to the shop (albeit a different one) and have it looked over a 2nd time. I'm really looking forward to learning more about engine work and motorcycle maintenance in general.
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post #15 of 15 Old 05-03-2009, 8:42 PM
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Re: Seeking Power Commander III USB Map advice...

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Originally Posted by oldfart View Post
He showed me how to do the compression testing and leak down test. We took a look at the cam timing but that was OK. At any rate, turns out my bike has about 40% leakage. He said that if this was a race bike, anything over 5% leakage would warrant an engine teardown. Since it's a commuter, he says it's really up to me if I want to ride it as is or teardown the engine.

He suggests that I not spend the money having him or anyone else rebuild the engine (mainly the rings...his guess without opening it up the rest of the way is that it's leaking past the rings). His advice is to pick up a good, used motor instead and use my motor to learn the rebuild process myself.
I can't imagine how an engine can have such severe ring wear just during the course of a service though. It was fine went it went it and worn out when you picked it up? Since you were far enough into the bike to remove the plugs for testing you should have lifted the valve cover and checked the valve clearances and timing.
Putting a motor in and spending time building a new one is a great way to go in my opinion.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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