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post #1 of 13 Old 04-28-2009, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cam shafts off by a tooth?

Just finished valve job, lined up the cams as to where it looked as if they were in the right place with the IN and EX lines faceing away from eachother, put everything back together, now it seems as the bike has a loss in power and a terrible stumble at 5k rpm. It has only run for about 1-2 minutes since i put it back together. Symptoms of cams being off by one tooth or did I forget something? Either way its getting torn back down, im just making sure im looking for the right things. Is it much easier to drop the engine from the frame to get to the cams? worth the extra effort of actually dropping the engine?
Edit: its a 929rr
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-28-2009, 10:58 PM
 
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

look in your manual and see where the crank mark is suppose to be set at.

i realy cant remember exactly, but, i think the TDC mark is suppose to be just before the notch on the side of the case cover access.

does the manual say that the lines are to be away from each other or towards each other.

also, make sure you didn't adjust the valves in too much, make sure it's between the recomended setting (i.e. if it says set between .50 thousands to .60 thousands you would set it to .55 thousands of an inch

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post #3 of 13 Old 04-28-2009, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

Crank marks were close from what I could see and what the manual told me. It was very hard to see one of the marks on the intake cam shaft sprocket because it is blocked by the frame on the side, so I had to use a mirror to eyeball it, where I might have messed it up by a tooth. I checked the valve clearances after I put the cam shafts back in and they were all in spec.
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post #4 of 13 Old 04-28-2009, 11:52 PM
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by Evil R View Post
I checked the valve clearances after I put the cam shafts back in and they were all in spec.
Tight clearances was my first thought.
I think you're going to have to pull the valve cover again and check the timing.
Valve job implies you had the head off to recut the valves but I'm assuming you just mean you did the clearances.

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post #5 of 13 Old 04-28-2009, 11:54 PM
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by Evil R View Post
Is it much easier to drop the engine from the frame to get to the cams? worth the extra effort of actually dropping the engine?
Edit: its a 929rr
Not in my opinion.
Checking the valve timing is a quick and simple job and definately doesn't warrant dropping the engine.

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post #6 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 1:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
Tight clearances was my first thought.
I think you're going to have to pull the valve cover again and check the timing.
Valve job implies you had the head off to recut the valves but I'm assuming you just mean you did the clearances.
You are correct, i did the clearances, 3 valves were out of spec and i put new shims in them, rechecked the clearances and they were in spec. Do you use a mirror to look at the timing mark on the intake cam? The frame prevents a direct read like on the exhaust cam...
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post #7 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 1:08 AM
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by Evil R View Post
You are correct, i did the clearances, 3 valves were out of spec and i put new shims in them, rechecked the clearances and they were in spec. Do you use a mirror to look at the timing mark on the intake cam? The frame prevents a direct read like on the exhaust cam...
Yes, mirrors can be very useful :-)
You can also get magnifying mirrors.

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post #8 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 1:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

mirrors it is! One more thing, is there a more precise way of getting the chain around the intake cam shaft gear than holding the shaft at wierd angles when putting it back in its notches? I seem to have a hard time getting the mark on the intake cam just where I want it because there is still movement and rotation as the shaft is going into place.
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post #9 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 1:47 AM
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by Evil R View Post
mirrors it is! One more thing, is there a more precise way of getting the chain around the intake cam shaft gear than holding the shaft at wierd angles when putting it back in its notches? I seem to have a hard time getting the mark on the intake cam just where I want it because there is still movement and rotation as the shaft is going into place.
You did remove the chain tensioner didn't you?
Set the crank so all pistons are halfway up the bores and bolt the cams down. Turn the cams to the correct positions and then turn the crank so #1 is at TDC. Install the tensioner and screw it all the way out and hold it there.
Hook the chain around the crank sprocket and keeping tension on the front run of chain lay the chain across the exhaust sprocket and then the intake sprocket. Keep pressure on it while releasing the tensioner. Then turn the motor by hand a couple of times and check the cam timing is correct. Now check the valve clearances.

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Last edited by bladeracer; 04-29-2009 at 2:23 AM.
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 4:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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You did remove the chain tensioner didn't you?
Set the crank so all pistons are halfway up the bores and bolt the cams down. Turn the cams to the correct positions and then turn the crank so #1 is at TDC. Install the tensioner and screw it all the way out and hold it there.
Hook the chain around the crank sprocket and keeping tension on the front run of chain lay the chain across the exhaust sprocket and then the intake sprocket. Keep pressure on it while releasing the tensioner. Then turn the motor by hand a couple of times and check the cam timing is correct. Now check the valve clearances.
I did remove the tensioner, but the way haynes lays it out is to keep cylinder 1 at TDC the entire time, lay exhaust in, loop chain around it and then wiggle the intake cam into place while looping the chain over it, its hard to wiggle it in without changing the positioning of the intake cam to off of where it needs to be... i take it you remove the clutch cover to have better access to the crank sprocket?
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post #11 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 9:42 PM
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by Evil R View Post
I did remove the tensioner, but the way haynes lays it out is to keep cylinder 1 at TDC the entire time, lay exhaust in, loop chain around it and then wiggle the intake cam into place while looping the chain over it, its hard to wiggle it in without changing the positioning of the intake cam to off of where it needs to be... i take it you remove the clutch cover to have better access to the crank sprocket?
I don't recommend having any of the pistons at the top of the cylinder while installing the cams to avoid bending valves.
Even doing it as you've stated you should still have enough slack to be able to pull the chain a link either way.
Regardless of how you put them in, all that matters is that the chain is tight from the crank sprocket up to the exhaust cam and across to the intake cam while #1 (LHS of the engine) is at TDC and the cam sprocket marks aligned with the gasket surface and both pointing outwards.
You shouldn't need to remove the clutch cover unless you're actually replacing the camchain.

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post #12 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 9:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
I don't recommend having any of the pistons at the top of the cylinder while installing the cams to avoid bending valves.
Even doing it as you've stated you should still have enough slack to be able to pull the chain a link either way.
Regardless of how you put them in, all that matters is that the chain is tight from the crank sprocket up to the exhaust cam and across to the intake cam while #1 (LHS of the engine) is at TDC and the cam sprocket marks aligned with the gasket surface and both pointing outwards.
You shouldn't need to remove the clutch cover unless you're actually replacing the camchain.
I seem to have figured it out as it has all gone together pretty smoothly, and i just rechecked the valve clearances, and I have been blessed with a gift... two of the valves that were in spec before I took it apart this time are now too tight, the rest are pretty much perfect dead center of specifications... 3rd tear down here i come!
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post #13 of 13 Old 04-29-2009, 9:52 PM
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Re: Cam shafts off by a tooth?

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Originally Posted by Evil R View Post
I seem to have figured it out as it has all gone together pretty smoothly, and i just rechecked the valve clearances, and I have been blessed with a gift... two of the valves that were in spec before I took it apart this time are now too tight, the rest are pretty much perfect dead center of specifications... 3rd tear down here i come!
Bugger :-)

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