carbon wheels - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 18 Old 06-02-2009, 2:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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carbon wheels

hi guys
i,m thinking of buying a set of carbon wheels for my 954.
rather than changing the bike i thought i'd spend a bit of money on toys to improve the bike instead. after all i love the bike,i'm used to it ,and have spent a lot of money on it in the past. anyway what i want to know is there anyone out there whose done this conversion. what wheels did you go for?
what did the bike ride like afterwards? was it well worth the outlay?i'll also welcome anyone else whose got a view on changing wheels.thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 18 Old 06-02-2009, 3:11 PM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

I, too, am interested in what peoples' experience proves to be. Enquiring minds want to know.
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post #3 of 18 Old 06-02-2009, 4:29 PM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

I have done this to a few of my bike's with differing results:

07 CBR600RR Forged Alloy Marchiseni's quite a noticeable difference.

07 GSXR1000 Forged Magnisium Marchisenii,s big difference

08 1098 BST's Huge difference.

So if you are going to spend the money get the best/lightest wheels you can afford.

The biggest difference is in change of direction, it makes the whole bike feel much lighter when you are riding also.

Better bang for the buck than a pipe or shock.

Just take the time to set your suspension up to suit them and you will be well rewarded.

The worst thing about light wheels is now I have to put them on what ever bike I have $$$$$$
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post #4 of 18 Old 06-02-2009, 4:34 PM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

Here are a couple of pic's , havn't taken any of the duke yet sorry.
Attached Thumbnails
cbr20.jpg‎   gixxer2.jpg‎  
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post #5 of 18 Old 06-02-2009, 5:11 PM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

Forged AL Marcheseni is probably the biggest bang for the buck and AL might be more durable for street use I put some cast Mg Dymag's on the RC and WOW! though I dislike them as getting parts over here is painful. That said the brake marker at the end of the straight went a ton deeper and pull off the corners was a huge improvement (made hanging with the newer I4s easier). That was in addition to the lighter feel mentioned.

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post #6 of 18 Old 06-02-2009, 9:21 PM
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Re: carbon wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepofblue View Post
Forged AL Marcheseni is probably the biggest bang for the buck and AL might be more durable for street use I put some cast Mg Dymag's on the RC and WOW! though I dislike them as getting parts over here is painful. That said the brake marker at the end of the straight went a ton deeper and pull off the corners was a huge improvement (made hanging with the newer I4s easier). That was in addition to the lighter feel mentioned.
Since the forged aluminium wheels are barely lighter than the stock wheels why would you consider them good bang for buck?
Magnesium is best bang for buck in my opinion.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #7 of 18 Old 06-02-2009, 11:18 PM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
Since the forged aluminium wheels are barely lighter than the stock wheels why would you consider them good bang for buck?
Magnesium is best bang for buck in my opinion.
Because they are not just barely lighter (on an RC which I know the weights) Further the overall weight is important but the distrubution is equally important as the further from center the weight loss is the higher percieved change.

For instance from Hardracing.com
Marchesini 10 spoke Forged Al: Front: 7.99 pounds; Rear: 10.88
Marchesini 10 spoke forged Mg: Front: 6.04lbs, Rear: 7.76lbs

Stock RC SP2 front 9lb 9.6oz

I don't have weights for the rear without the cush drive though. However that is another reason the aftermarket wheels are lighter is the cush drive (though it is closer to center)

Now a set of Marchesini forged Mg $3765 forged Al $2200. So in my opinion the almost double price is harder to justify for street use AND the Al is likely to fatigue better than Mg according to some ME friends of mine. Certainly there is also some cast Mg rims available at a price point closer to Al but from the cases I have looked at the weight is very close and again for street use I would prefer the Al

In my area the most bang for the buck is certainly forged Mg if you intend track use as CF is illegal in WERA (and I think other US race orgs)


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post #8 of 18 Old 06-03-2009, 1:45 AM
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Re: carbon wheels

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Originally Posted by sheepofblue View Post
Because they are not just barely lighter (on an RC which I know the weights) Further the overall weight is important but the distrubution is equally important as the further from center the weight loss is the higher percieved change.
On some bikes, aftermarket aluminium wheels are actually heavier than the OEM wheels.
The rims of the stock wheels and aftermarket wheels are essentially the same weight - they're both aluminium and forged material is denser than cast material. Any real saving is in the hub design.
The weights you've listed for the rear wheels are without the cush drive. My Marchesini three-spoke mag rear weighs 4.051kg (9.034lbs) with just bearings, spacer and valve. Are you sure 7.76lbs is correct?

Does that 8lbs aluminium front include the bearings and spacer?
A stock 929 front wheel weighs 4.144kg with just bearings, seals, valve and bearing spacer (which I make as 9.24lbs). The discs are another 2.65kg, bolts are 0.120kg and the tyre is around 4kg (new) depending on brand.
The 954 wheels are slightly lighter than the 929 wheels (due to the cut out sections) but I haven't weighed them to know by how much. The '04-'07 1000RR rear wheel is over 300gms lighter than the 929 rear wheel and everything that attaches to it is exactly the same part as on the 929/954.

Assuming the 8lbs (3.587kg) is with bearings and spacer, runs the OEM discs and is the same pattern for the SP2 and 929/954 then the forged aluminium front wheel saves you 557gms (1.24lbs) most of which is in the hub Less on the 954 as the OEM wheels are already lighter). Certainly a nice saving but is it worth $1000? On the SP2 (4.305kg) you could put a 1000RR front wheel on and save perhaps 200gms for just a couple of hundred dollars.
Assuming the 6.04lbs (2.709kg) is also accurate, the mag wheel saves you 1.435kg for around $1500. And now the rim is two-thirds the weight of the aluminium wheel purely because it's magnesium - definately better bang for buck.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #9 of 18 Old 06-03-2009, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: carbon wheels

guys .the wheels i was looking at were from bst or dymag. both are around the 2000 pound mark.which is better i dont know? the problem is when you ask suppliers about weights none of them seem to know but they all seem to give the same old sales patter about being lighter ,better braking,handling bonuses.

i know all this but how do i know what there telling me is true about there product. the 954 wheels are preaty light anyway arn't they?
whats the overall weight with everything fitted? oh i should say that i'm thinking of wrapping them in bt016 at the moment i have bt014 which i rearly like the feel of on the bike.

i've tuned the front forks for my weight (around 15 slim stones) with different springs and oil.rear suspension was adjusted slightly toughter settings feels good. i've just got a new rear shock though that i'll be sending of for a slightly tougher spring and then i'll set it up again once wheels go on.
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post #10 of 18 Old 06-03-2009, 11:04 AM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

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post #11 of 18 Old 06-03-2009, 11:32 AM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

Look at both for support and parts (sprockets). As stated I have some Dymags that I got used on the RC. Nice rims and major change but getting a new wheel stud was rough. I would expect Dymag parts over there to be easy to come by (in the states it is not)

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post #12 of 18 Old 06-03-2009, 11:41 AM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
On some bikes, aftermarket aluminium wheels are actually heavier than the OEM wheels.
The rims of the stock wheels and aftermarket wheels are essentially the same weight - they're both aluminium and forged material is denser than cast material. Any real saving is in the hub design.
The weights you've listed for the rear wheels are without the cush drive. My Marchesini three-spoke mag rear weighs 4.051kg (9.034lbs) with just bearings, spacer and valve. Are you sure 7.76lbs is correct?

Does that 8lbs aluminium front include the bearings and spacer?
A stock 929 front wheel weighs 4.144kg with just bearings, seals, valve and bearing spacer (which I make as 9.24lbs). The discs are another 2.65kg, bolts are 0.120kg and the tyre is around 4kg (new) depending on brand.
The 954 wheels are slightly lighter than the 929 wheels (due to the cut out sections) but I haven't weighed them to know by how much. The '04-'07 1000RR rear wheel is over 300gms lighter than the 929 rear wheel and everything that attaches to it is exactly the same part as on the 929/954.

Assuming the 8lbs (3.587kg) is with bearings and spacer, runs the OEM discs and is the same pattern for the SP2 and 929/954 then the forged aluminium front wheel saves you 557gms (1.24lbs) most of which is in the hub Less on the 954 as the OEM wheels are already lighter). Certainly a nice saving but is it worth $1000? On the SP2 (4.305kg) you could put a 1000RR front wheel on and save perhaps 200gms for just a couple of hundred dollars.
Assuming the 6.04lbs (2.709kg) is also accurate, the mag wheel saves you 1.435kg for around $1500. And now the rim is two-thirds the weight of the aluminium wheel purely because it's magnesium - definately better bang for buck.
Yep the point is that the answer is not always obvious because of bike etc. I have exact weights of going from stock to cast Mg Dymags at home and I think I saved about 8lbs for both ends. The other thing that is harder to determine is the inertial resistance (can't remember the actual term ) I once saw a magazine review (think RRW) that had weights and inertia. The second number actually matters more. As I poorly stated above the outer rim loosing a small amount is better than the hub loosing more since the force is applied at a greater distance.

Personally I would make a spreadsheet of weights and $$ (or pounds) and compare based on as much info as I could gather if I was buying new

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post #13 of 18 Old 06-03-2009, 4:02 PM
 
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Re: carbon wheels

oh i should say that i'm thinking of wrapping them in bt016 at the moment i have bt014 which i rearly like the feel of on the bike.


If you are going to spend the $ on wheelsi t makes sence to fit the lightest tyres also. THere can be a big difference in weight, Pirelli Supercorsa's or Metz CompK are some of the lightest. I can personally recommend the Metz as I have them on my 1098.
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post #14 of 18 Old 06-03-2009, 9:06 PM
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Re: carbon wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepofblue View Post
Personally I would make a spreadsheet of weights and $$ (or pounds) and compare based on as much info as I could gather if I was buying new
I gathered a heap of OEM and aftermarket wheel weights a few years back and found the 1000RR and GSXR1000 wheels are the lightest OEM wheels.
Didn't look at prices though.
Many aftermarket manufacturers will list weights without the periferals so single-sided wheels are always listed as _way_ lighter than they actually are when they're on the bike. Steve Turner of Dymag specifically sent me a spreadsheet of their wheel weights.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Dymag AVERAGE WHEEL WEIGHTS.xls‎ (31.0 KB, 14 views)

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #15 of 18 Old 06-04-2009, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: carbon wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by circuit1 View Post
oh i should say that i'm thinking of wrapping them in bt016 at the moment i have bt014 which i rearly like the feel of on the bike.


If you are going to spend the $ on wheelsi t makes sence to fit the lightest tyres also. THere can be a big difference in weight, Pirelli Supercorsa's or Metz CompK are some of the lightest. I can personally recommend the Metz as I have them on my 1098.
i understand what your saying about the tyres but over the years i've owned the bike i've tried a few tyres pirellis,continental, mitchelins.but i rearly like and prefer bridgestones the bike just feels more stable to me at speed.and in the wet and since i use my bike everyday i'll sacrifice that little xtra weight.
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