Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929 - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-14-2009, 1:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

So, picked up a PC3 USB for a 954 from a guy on this forum. Installed it today. Pulled up a 929 map from dynojet and tried to load it to the bike and wouldn't work. Some searching on the forum revealed why:

Quote:
1) They are kinda the same. Connectors are the same. But you can't directly up load a map made for one into the other. I have a 929 PC on my 954 engine, I have to load a 929 map w/ the 954 data. No big deal, just a little pain in the neck.
Quote:
Are they the same...yes, but you can use a 929 PC3 in your bike that will require some manual intervention with inputting a map.
Now, I can't find any actual info on HOW to do the above. I've got a full standalone ECU running my car so I'm not unfamiliar with fuel maps, but I don't want to just start messing around. Do I have to open up a map for a 954 then copy all the cells from the 929 map onto that 954 map so that it is effectively the cell values that the 929 map had but saved as a 954 map?


Oh, and I need to throw this question in here: I've got a CA model 929, but with the PC3 I installed the o2 sensor eliminator, so should I be using the map for the CA model bike (which has an o2 sensor) or the map for the 49 state bike that doesn't have an o2 sensor?

Help me out
Thanks!
-Ryan

Last edited by ThePass; 11-14-2009 at 2:01 AM.
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post #2 of 16 Old 11-14-2009, 2:23 AM
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Do I have to open up a map for a 954 then copy all the cells from the 929 map onto that 954 map so that it is effectively the cell values that the 929 map had but saved as a 954 map?


Oh, and I need to throw this question in here: I've got a CA model 929, but with the PC3 I installed the o2 sensor eliminator, so should I be using the map for the CA model bike (which has an o2 sensor) or the map for the 49 state bike that doesn't have an o2 sensor?

Yep, that's the way to do it.
If you installed an O2 eliminator you would run a non-O2 map.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #3 of 16 Old 11-14-2009, 2:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

Ok, so a "CA model" map simply refers to the presence of the o2 sensor? I used the compare map function in the software to compare the CA map vs. non-CA map and some of the cells are significantly different - by like 8 to 10 units. Surprising. So, non-CA model it is for me!

Ok, will copy all those cells over.
Thanks again
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post #4 of 16 Old 11-14-2009, 2:54 AM
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Ok, so a "CA model" map simply refers to the presence of the o2 sensor? I used the compare map function in the software to compare the CA map vs. non-CA map and some of the cells are significantly different - by like 8 to 10 units. Surprising. So, non-CA model it is for me!

Ok, will copy all those cells over.
Thanks again
I think the Cali injectors are different as well so I would guess the ideal would be a Cali map with the O2 eliminator.
I would recommend just trying a bunch of different maps until you find one you like.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #5 of 16 Old 11-14-2009, 3:39 AM
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

In answer to your question - or actually for anybody searching for this in the future since you kinda answered your own question... load the 929 map that you want to put on there. Hit ctrl-A (to highlight everything) and ctrl-c. Then load any 954 map, click on the first square and hit ctrl-v. Load it onto the power commander and you're good to go.
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post #6 of 16 Old 11-14-2009, 2:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

If the CA model injectors are different... with fuel tables the increments of change are just that - arbitrary increments that have different effects depending on the fuel system.. so I am thinking best to stick with the CA model map even if I have eliminated the o2 sensor.

Are the injectors on the CA bike a different cc or just like a different design or something?
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post #7 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 10:24 AM
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

Hate to open this thread back up, but just want to make sure I understand. If you can use a 954 pc on a 929, then the reverse is true too right? You can use a 929 pc on a 954?

So the power commander part numbers (part number #104-411 for 929 & #110-411 for 954 ) are more or less interchangeable?
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post #8 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 10:29 AM
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Originally Posted by kahlilj View Post
Hate to open this thread back up, but just want to make sure I understand. If you can use a 954 pc on a 929, then the reverse is true too right? You can use a 929 pc on a 954?

So the power commander part numbers (part number #104-411 for 929 & #110-411 for 954 ) are more or less interchangeable?

I believe you can use them on the different bikes but it is fiddly if you ever need to play with the mapping. I would think the best result would be from the correct PC for the bike.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #9 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 10:36 AM
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Originally Posted by kahlilj View Post
Hate to open this thread back up, but just want to make sure I understand. If you can use a 954 pc on a 929, then the reverse is true too right? You can use a 929 pc on a 954?

So the power commander part numbers (part number #104-411 for 929 & #110-411 for 954 ) are more or less interchangeable?
Yep, I have a 929 Power Commander on my 954 - works great! Like I said above, you just have to cut and paste the 929 map on top of any 954 one when you load it. It only takes an extra 10 seconds or so, it's not a big deal.
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post #10 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 11:22 AM
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
I believe you can use them on the different bikes but it is fiddly if you ever need to play with the mapping. I would think the best result would be from the correct PC for the bike.
I agree blade, but if i can get one for a 929 really cheap vs one for a 954, then the occasional mapping need inconvenience would be worth it for me.

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Originally Posted by mgolden View Post
Yep, I have a 929 Power Commander on my 954 - works great! Like I said above, you just have to cut and paste the 929 map on top of any 954 one when you load it. It only takes an extra 10 seconds or so, it's not a big deal.
sooo you have a 954, but you paste the map to match the power commander bike model?
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 11:28 AM
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

Correct. Load the 954 map that you want on the bike, copy it. Then load any 929 map and paste over the top of it. Then load that map.

It's stupid that Power Commander put that lock on it when there isn't much difference between them. But at least it's easy enough to get around.
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post #12 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 12:34 PM
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Correct. Load the 954 map that you want on the bike, copy it. Then load any 929 map and paste over the top of it. Then load that map.

It's stupid that Power Commander put that lock on it when there isn't much difference between them. But at least it's easy enough to get around.

It's not a "lock" by Dynojet.
The 929 and 954 ECU's are different and output different data.
The PC can only interpret data it's designed to. A 954 PC requires a 954 map and so on. You can run a 954 PC on a 929 (or more specifically, a 929 ECU) but you will need to copy the values you want to use from a 929 map and paste them into a 954 map to be able to upload it to the PC. A 929 map allows modification in 500rpm increments I think, and the 954 allows 250rpm steps - or something like that.

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post #13 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 12:41 PM
 
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

From my experience the maps paste directly in - if there were additional rpm increments then it would be a nightmare using the different map since you'd have to make up the additional rpm resolution.

Yep, just checked. Both the 104 and 110 files are 500 rpm increments.

Since you can use the 929 and 954 modules interchangeably you'd think Dynojet could have just done this from the factory - just made one 929/954 model with a software option for which bike you are on.
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post #14 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 12:45 PM
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Originally Posted by mgolden View Post
From my experience the maps paste directly in - if there were additional rpm increments then it would be a nightmare using the different map since you'd have to make up the additional rpm resolution.

Yep, just checked. Both the 104 and 110 files are 500 rpm increments.

Since you can use the 929 and 954 modules interchangeably you'd think Dynojet could have just done this from the factory - just made one 929/954 model with a software option for which bike you are on.

Okay, I'm confusing PC2 with PC3 maps then.

It is not Dynojet at fault.
The 954 has a faster ECU and different injectors. The data coming from the ECU is different to tthe data from a 929 ECU. I think there's a lot more data in fact?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-31-2011, 12:47 PM
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Re: Help me - Power Commander for 954 on a 929

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Originally Posted by mgolden View Post
Since you can use the 929 and 954 modules interchangeably you'd think Dynojet could have just done this from the factory - just made one 929/954 model with a software option for which bike you are on.

Or maybe Honda should simply build their own tuneable fuel management device and include it in the bike from the start?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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