954 Electrical Gremlins - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 9 Old 05-23-2010, 7:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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954 Electrical Gremlins

First off, hello to all, been a lurker for some time, but finally ran into a big enough issue that I would need advice from some fellow owners about..

its a 2002 954.
Approximately a week ago, I lost power to my instrument cluster as well as tail lights. forward most 10amp fuse was blown, found what i suspected to be the culprit minorly exposed wire, replaced it and loomed it, replaced fuse. All was well for another 150 miles until this morning. I hopped on an went to start the bike and I had readouts on the instrument cluster, but no backlightning, my rear turnsignals were both illuminated dimly, and I had no headlights. The bike would start but only star running as long as I had the starter pressed. Inspection of the fuses revealed no burnt fuses but upon removal of a 20amp fuse in the center of the block, my instrument backlighting came back, my turn signals were no longer dimly lit and the motorcycle started and ran without pressing the starter the whole time. The headlights still were not illuminated. And as a minor issue, when using the turn signals, the instrument cluster lost the backlightning as the signals flashed (i.e. it was flashing as well). This allowed me to get home and be here posting this now lol.

My fuse block has worn with age, so the sticker denoting what fuses are to what has vanished, if someone could provide this it would be greatly helpful to me. Also, I looked at one of the wiring schematics that had been posted but it did not look complete as I could not locate the fuse block and a number of other items as I was trying to hunt down the previous issue.

I have most all the appropriate tools to help diagnose this, but really without having an idea as to what that fuse goes to or a decent wiring diagram, I'd be taking shots in the dark.

Any help is greatly appreciated and thanks in advance.

-Ken


Update:

Headlight Relay: OK
Headlight connectors @ Bulbs: NOT OK - both terminals produce 12v when grounded

Last edited by Sneakin Deacon; 05-24-2010 at 12:46 PM.
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post #2 of 9 Old 05-24-2010, 10:56 AM
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

I know exactly what this is as it just happened to my 929.
Under the tank on the right side of the bike right beside the throttle position sensor is the main harness in that part of the harness there is an orange plastic ground connector with 12 wires, 6 of them are black with a white stripe, and the other 8 are green. On my bike this connector burnt.
This cause an open circuit and 12v was floating around. The bad connector is basically a huge resistor causing to much current to be drawn and your headlights dont get enough juice to come on.

To fix it, disconnect the battery first!!!!! I didnt and i think it fried my ECU.
Unwrap the connector, but the ends of the wires off, clean them up cause they will be corroded. then solder all the green wires together and tape them up. Then solder all the bl/w wires togther and tape them up, then tape them all back to the harness. This should solve your issue.

I have pics of mine, ill post them in a few minutes
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post #3 of 9 Old 05-24-2010, 12:16 PM
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

This is the connector mentioned above.

its a pain to get to, you will probably have to take the fuel line off the rail to get it past the throttle bodies.

Cheers

Last edited by burner303; 07-24-2010 at 3:51 PM.
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post #4 of 9 Old 05-24-2010, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

Thanks for the input! I am just about to the point of getting to the engine bay, I spent about an hour last night running through the rear of the bike.

Basically what I found was, the relay for the headlights has power, and works appropriately when switching from hi/lo. The problem lies between the relay and headlights as with my multimeter grounded to the battery itself, both connections on the headlights posted 12v. So something has broken the ground and is shooting 12v through it, which sounds like what that burnt orange connector you mentioned could easily do, so I will take a peak when I get a moment and update you. Thanks again.
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post #5 of 9 Old 05-25-2010, 1:24 AM
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneakin Deacon View Post
The problem lies between the relay and headlights as with my multimeter grounded to the battery itself, both connections on the headlights posted 12v. So something has broken the ground and is shooting 12v through it.

Just becareful if you are metering around, when i found 12 on the ground side, it didnt show up until i pulled the connector off the headlight.
After I got everything all soldered up and working right, the bike wouldnt start, and I found out that the ECU was not putting out the peak voltage to the coils anymore, I tried it in my other 929 and it did the same thing, so the ECU went bad for some reason(I think it fed +12 into one of the signal lines else where on the bike). My suggestion to you would be to make sure the bike still starts, then turn it off, disconnect the battery, find that connector, fix it proper, then reconnect the battery.

Let me know if it is the same issues as I want to call honda and Bitch at them for using such a piece of **** system.
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post #6 of 9 Old 05-25-2010, 1:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

well i havent been able to find that connector not sure if it changed from the 929 to 954 or what..

I think I am going to just pull the harness out entirely and inspect it starting from the tail light fuse going back. the only time I have any sort of issue is with the tail light fuse in (other than using my turn signal, which cuts the cluster backlight off, which is losing its ground when the tail lights get 12v popped at them for turns). so something has melted somewhere, and itll just be easier with it completely out for me to put a test load on it and hunt around.
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post #7 of 9 Old 05-26-2010, 3:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

UPDATE:

Have the harness outside of the bike now and exposed for more thorough testing.

Testing has revealed that the use of the blinkers causes all 3 relays to click along with the blinking.

Disconnecting either front turn signal stops the clicking of the relays, stops the backlight flashing on the cluster (it stays on) and appears the rear turn signals function accordingly. This only occurs with 1 turn signal disconnected, if both are, it goes back to previous issue.

Also, never noticed before since it was daytime, but even during "normal" blinking, ALL blinkers are actually flashing just the unintended blinkers are flashing very very very dimly.

Inspection of the harness through the engine compartment has lead to no noticeable melting or groundings. A few lines have had minor nicks/cuts and have been replaced accordingly with no notable difference in operation.

Currently trying to understand why disconnecting the tail lights is making the cluster backlighting turn off, have not been able to trace any shared ground wire but will continue to look.

Im guessing the short is particularly minor, minimal amperage, just enough to illuminate a few LEDs or signal a relay, but not enough to pop a 10/20 amp fuse.


Best guess right now, is there is one particular grounding wire with MULTIPLE! T'd connections throughout the bike, this will be my focus for the next phase of the inspection.


NOTE: I hope no one minds if I use this thread as a journal for myself, I've been trying to note my progress so I do not recover already traveled routes and may remind myself of other symptoms that may have pro/regressed

Also, i was furbished a wiring schematic and was told it was for an 02, but my fuse box wiring colors do not seems to match. the wires are there, but not in the appropriate places. not sure if anyone would be willing to confirm or deny vs. there 02 954.

Last edited by Sneakin Deacon; 05-26-2010 at 3:35 PM.
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post #8 of 9 Old 05-29-2010, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

Issues are all resolved and bike has run normally for about 100 miles now.

The issue was a couple of wires right where the harnes T's to go to the front and rear of the bike just under the seat. I had to remove the fuel tank to really get down in there and see it, but the plastic under fairing of the tail section had managed to rub its way through the harness right there. Ultimately had to remove the rear frame to get in and fix the problem entirely.



All in all, this vs. 350 dollars for a new wiring harness from honda, this was the best option all be it the more time consuming one.
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post #9 of 9 Old 05-30-2010, 1:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Electrical Gremlins

UGHHHHHH...problem was not solved...made it to work again, next morning not a flipping thing, same exact symptoms.

bike is now torn apart again and I believe to have found the culprit...I have been able to replicate ALL of the symptoms through this connector.

Ironically, it looks like burner's connector, with all the green grounds going to it, but its yellow instead of orange and seems to be in a different spot...which could just be a 929-954 change



to help explain this, its like a big joining block, there is a metal piece inside that jumpers every single wire together there.
************************************************** *****
************************************************** *****
what I am not sure about is, with that jumper out, the headlight and tailight grounds are producing operating voltage (i.e. like 12.5v)...i dont think it is, but IS THIS NORMAL!? with the jumper in place the grounds put out about .45v...everything works appropriately, it just gets almost untouchable with heat though only with high beams on..im no electrician, but I still think there is a possible short because of this voltage return, but not sure if its because power is going into the bulb and is passing right back out of it through the ungrounded wire.

Upon further inspection, there is some browning of the connector at the headlight ground point...

Burner, do you have LED turn signals? Are they 2 or 3 wire connections? I am wondering if that may be the issue, as I purchased the bike as is, and it has 2 wires for the aftermarket turn signal, but there is a 3rd wire, taped away, it looks to be a neutral wire (hot, ground, neutral) and I am not sure if it should be used or not, as from what I can tell from the wiring schematic it is supposed to have 3 wires. also, were the factory front turn signals also running lights? i hooked the wire up and it stays on constantly until i hit the turn signal and it works normally. doesn't affect the hot connector though, still quite warm with the hi beams on...maybe ill just try to find a lower wattage bulb with the same lumen output.
Attached Thumbnails
culprit.jpg‎   culprit1.jpg‎   culprit2.jpg‎  

Last edited by Sneakin Deacon; 05-30-2010 at 1:58 AM. Reason: added photos/comments
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