taking out the 929 o2 sensor - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 01-18-2004
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
taking out the 929 o2 sensor

I have heard that taking out the o2 sensor from the CA model will #1 make me lose a little weight and #2 add 1-2 HP has any one done this to their bike. I know I would need to buy some type of block off the reason I am asking is I want to put on a full system and I have to get rid of it the other problem is I really don't know how to properly disconnect it so it won't cause me problems with the way the bike runs. Any help would be appreciated
psycho929rr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 11:19 AM
 
nedro's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-29-2001
Location: Campbell, CA
Age: 56
Posts: 4,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 27
         
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor


Ride Red
nedro is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 11:23 AM
 
ND4SPD's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-07-2002
Location: US
Age: 16
Posts: 16,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 50
                     
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro
Got you a refill, scooch over, I wanna watch
ND4SPD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 11:53 AM
 
EatnAsphalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-07-2001
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 19
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

You'll need either a resistor or you can buy a pre-made plug with the resistor (Dynojet sells one) to fool the ECU so you don't get the MIL light coming on all the time.
EatnAsphalt is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 12:05 PM
dB
 
Join Date: 04-17-2002
Posts: 1,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
   
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

When you get the full system also get the plug that EatnAsphalt mentioned, and also get a PCIII and get it mapped on a dyno.

Removing the O2 sensor before then would be a waste of time, IMO. The weight savings would be roughly equivalent to having regular vs. supersize fries for lunch, and I seriously doubt you'd notice a power gain that was anywhere near proportional to the drop in fuel mileage you'd get. My $.02.
dB is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 2:02 PM
 
Join Date: 03-29-2002
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by dB
When you get the full system also get the plug that EatnAsphalt mentioned, and also get a PCIII and get it mapped on a dyno.

Removing the O2 sensor before then would be a waste of time, IMO. The weight savings would be roughly equivalent to having regular vs. supersize fries for lunch, and I seriously doubt you'd notice a power gain that was anywhere near proportional to the drop in fuel mileage you'd get. My $.02.
Removing the O2 sensor without installing a PCIII will only make the bike run way too rich at low throttle settings, and reduce your fuel mileage by about 20%.

Removing it from a stock CA bike will net no power gain, and the weight savings will be on the order of a few ounces.
Joel is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 2:02 PM
 
Join Date: 01-11-2004
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

It kills your gas mileage (the bike runs even richer than normal), saves you *maybe* four ounces, and is not being used as intended. According to Dynojet, with whom I spoke last week on this very subject, the 02 sensor bypass is not intended as a stand-alone mod, only as part of the PC addition.
redcliffs is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 01-27-2004, 2:39 PM
 
Join Date: 05-10-2003
Posts: 1,538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliffs
It kills your gas mileage (the bike runs even richer than normal), saves you *maybe* four ounces, and is not being used as intended. According to Dynojet, with whom I spoke last week on this very subject, the 02 sensor bypass is not intended as a stand-alone mod, only as part of the PC addition.
Same thing I found out from them. I ran them anyway sans PC and guess what.. they were right. I'd leave it alone unless you install a system that requires you to remove it.
Holeshot is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 01-30-2004, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 01-18-2004
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Already have a PCIII and putting on a full arata from dan kyle. Dan if your out there do you have a map for these specific's
psycho929rr is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 01-30-2004, 9:56 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 01-18-2004
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by EatnAsphalt
You'll need either a resistor or you can buy a pre-made plug with the resistor (Dynojet sells one) to fool the ECU so you don't get the MIL light coming on all the time.
What is a web site where I can get this block off?
psycho929rr is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 01-31-2004, 1:31 PM
 
Join Date: 10-22-2003
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho929rr
What is a web site where I can get this block off?
http://www.powercommander.com/buynowacc.shtml

scroll down the page

Yes, Dan will provide a map for you, just ask him when you buy the Arata system.

Last edited by zenblader; 01-31-2004 at 1:33 PM.
zenblader is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 01-31-2004, 2:18 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 01-18-2004
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

thanks for that web site but it still says my FI light will come on and if there is a kit or something to get around that light coming on I would like to find it
psycho929rr is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 01-31-2004, 2:30 PM
 
Join Date: 10-22-2003
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho929rr
thanks for that web site but it still says my FI light will come on and if there is a kit or something to get around that light coming on I would like to find it
It is my understanding that this kit will eliminate the FI light problem. Otherwise what would be the point of buying it? The last sentence in their description describes what would happen "if" you eliminated the sensor without using this item.
zenblader is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 01-31-2004, 7:17 PM
 
Join Date: 01-23-2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Age: 66
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 16
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Sounds like somebody is missing the boat out there in "aftermarket land". Actually, I'd say they fell off the darn thing altogether.

The whole benefit of closed-loop EFI is the fact that a computer can monitor a number of issues at the same time. It can then make the BEST changes to all of the parameters over which it has control, with the result being the best power and/or economy for a given situation, as determined by the fuel/ignition map programmed into the ECU.

Should any significant sensor input be lost, the ECU drops into "limp-home" mode, which is open-loop, and which is totally reliant on a predetermined fuel/ignition map that makes MANY assumptions, and therefore sub-optimal (usually rich and spark-retarded) settings.

Reverting to open loop EFI is about as smart as reverting to carbs, since you lose the consideration for engine warm-up, and atmospheric conditions that the O2 sensor info provides. It might work OK for the conditions that it is designed in, but it can't possibly work as well in LA and Denver without map changes.

So these guys suggest that their conversion to open-loop EFI is better than remapping the closed loop system?? That's simply GARBAGE! It might be easier to do, and it might work in some small and well controlled environment that can't resemble the real world. I'd say that Barnum was right!!
BrianG is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 02-01-2004, 8:59 AM
 
Join Date: 01-05-2003
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: taking out the 929 o2 sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianG
Sounds like somebody is missing the boat out there in "aftermarket land". Actually, I'd say they fell off the darn thing altogether.

The whole benefit of closed-loop EFI is the fact that a computer can monitor a number of issues at the same time. It can then make the BEST changes to all of the parameters over which it has control, with the result being the best power and/or economy for a given situation, as determined by the fuel/ignition map programmed into the ECU.

Should any significant sensor input be lost, the ECU drops into "limp-home" mode, which is open-loop, and which is totally reliant on a predetermined fuel/ignition map that makes MANY assumptions, and therefore sub-optimal (usually rich and spark-retarded) settings.

Reverting to open loop EFI is about as smart as reverting to carbs, since you lose the consideration for engine warm-up, and atmospheric conditions that the O2 sensor info provides. It might work OK for the conditions that it is designed in, but it can't possibly work as well in LA and Denver without map changes.

So these guys suggest that their conversion to open-loop EFI is better than remapping the closed loop system?? That's simply GARBAGE! It might be easier to do, and it might work in some small and well controlled environment that can't resemble the real world. I'd say that Barnum was right!!
My understanding is that on the bikes, the O2 sensor is used to trim fuel ratio to stoichiometric, i.e. 14.7:1, under part-throttle/cruise conditions only. This is NOT the best ratio for making best power. It is the best ratio for emissions/fuel economy. It would seem that most knowledgeable tuners will go for an air/fuel ratio of about 12.5:1 - 12.7:1 for best performance/power. Fuel mileage will go down, but who give a unless you bought your bike for commuting, in which case you probably wouldn't bother with something like a PCIII in the first place.

If you really want to make best power/performance with a closed-loop system, you'll need a "wide-band" O2 sensor and a computer designed to work with it, such as Accel's DFI, FAST Electronics' or MOTEC's ([HOMER] mmmmm.... MOTEC[/HOMER] ) system. These systems are programmable to feed back info from the wide-band O2 that will tell the ECU exactly what ratio is being measured at the sensor.

This is unlike the standard O2 sensor, which is really only designed to tell the ECU if the fuel ratio is richer or leaner than stoich -- not the actual air/fuel ratio. The standard systems, even on most cars, do go into open-loop under full-throttle conditions. This is because 14.7:1 is too lean for full-power and will cause detonation problems and along with them, possible melt down.

So, PCIII w/o O2 sensor IS a better system for performance applications than the stock ECU w/sensor, as it will allow an experienced tuner with a wide-band O2 sensor and a dyno to run the bike under simulated load conditions. The tuner can then make changes to the open-loop fuel table/map to adjust for best performance. Yes, if anything major changes, and this would include altitude, it might need to be remapped. I say "might", as our bikes incorporate a "MAP" (Manifold Air Pressure, IIRC) sensor, that can adjust for altitude changes, as the pressure readings will change with changes in altitude.

As always, YMMV. And if anybody else (OnTheEdge) more knowledgeable about EFI systems than myself would like to chime in to correct any of my possible errors, please do.
CanyonCarver is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org > Honda Motorcycle Models > Honda FireBlade

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
A valid e-mail address is REQUIRED. You will not have access to any site features until you activate your account using the activation e-mail that is sent to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poor gas mileage on a 929 -- is no o2 sensor to blame? redcliffs Honda FireBlade 18 03-04-2004 7:00 PM
NEw 929 owner: Pipe? O2 Sensor? M4? Erwin8r Honda FireBlade 6 01-14-2004 3:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome