929 Hard to start cold and smells rich - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 7 Old 05-25-2011, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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929 Hard to start cold and smells rich

After a long winter of prepping my 929 for strictly track duty I was finally able to crank it over yesterday and much to my dismay I have a problem (and with only a couple days to go before my trackday at miller). When cold the bike is REALLY hard to start. It will crank a ton with no apparent effect then eventually catch for one revolution. It does this for a while then starts to catch for a couple revs. Then eventually it will fire but only while I have the starter button pressed. Then it will start and die with the run time getting progressively longer. Eventually it will start and continue running at which point it seems to run normally and will rev up but only if I roll on the throttle slowly, fast throttle kills it. Once it's up to temp is runs fine, revs fine, and I can twist the throttle as fast as I want. Meanwhile the exhaust very definitely smells like the mixture is very rich.

Changes I've made over the winter that affect the engine:
Removed stock dash and associated wiring harness section (I tried plugging it back in with no effect)
Added Koso gauge, tapped into cyl 1 coil wire for tach signal, replaced stock temp sensor with Koso unit
Removed airbox flapper assembly (did not remove or unplug servo)
Bike came with an aftermarket exhaust with no htev

My thoughts at this point are as follows:
1) When I tapped the coil wire I damaged it causing a weak spark in the #1 cylinder
2) The lack of a temp sensor signal to the ECU means that the ECU isn't doing it's cold start routine (assuming there is one, I don't know)
3) The universe hates me

Has anyone installed a koso (or similar gauge) on a 929 and if so did you experience any issues like this?
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post #2 of 7 Old 05-25-2011, 11:13 AM
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Re: 929 Hard to start cold and smells rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by soofle616 View Post
After a long winter of prepping my 929 for strictly track duty I was finally able to crank it over yesterday and much to my dismay I have a problem (and with only a couple days to go before my trackday at miller). When cold the bike is REALLY hard to start. It will crank a ton with no apparent effect then eventually catch for one revolution. It does this for a while then starts to catch for a couple revs. Then eventually it will fire but only while I have the starter button pressed. Then it will start and die with the run time getting progressively longer. Eventually it will start and continue running at which point it seems to run normally and will rev up but only if I roll on the throttle slowly, fast throttle kills it. Once it's up to temp is runs fine, revs fine, and I can twist the throttle as fast as I want. Meanwhile the exhaust very definitely smells like the mixture is very rich.

Changes I've made over the winter that affect the engine:
Removed stock dash and associated wiring harness section (I tried plugging it back in with no effect)
Added Koso gauge, tapped into cyl 1 coil wire for tach signal, replaced stock temp sensor with Koso unit
Removed airbox flapper assembly (did not remove or unplug servo)
Bike came with an aftermarket exhaust with no htev

My thoughts at this point are as follows:
1) When I tapped the coil wire I damaged it causing a weak spark in the #1 cylinder
2) The lack of a temp sensor signal to the ECU means that the ECU isn't doing it's cold start routine (assuming there is one, I don't know)
3) The universe hates me

Has anyone installed a koso (or similar gauge) on a 929 and if so did you experience any issues like this?


Fuel pressure regulator.
Pull the vacuum line off, turn on the ignition to prime the fuel rail and see if fuel comes out. If it does you need a new one.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #3 of 7 Old 05-25-2011, 2:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Hard to start cold and smells rich

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
Fuel pressure regulator.
Pull the vacuum line off, turn on the ignition to prime the fuel rail and see if fuel comes out. If it does you need a new one.
Wouldn't that result in poor running regardless of engine temp?
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post #4 of 7 Old 05-25-2011, 2:26 PM
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Re: 929 Hard to start cold and smells rich

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Originally Posted by soofle616 View Post
Wouldn't that result in poor running regardless of engine temp?


Not noticeably. At higher rpm the engine has enough momentum to push the extra fuel through unburned.
At lower rpm or trying to start, the unburned fuel fouls the plugs and reduces the ability of the spark to ignite the very rich mix.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #5 of 7 Old 05-25-2011, 2:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Hard to start cold and smells rich

Ah, makes sense. Well, I'll add it to the list of items to check tonight.
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post #6 of 7 Old 05-26-2011, 1:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Hard to start cold and smells rich

After trying a couple cold starts with and without the OEM sensor last night, it appears that is at least part of the problem. I don't know for sure because it was a lot warmer yesterday when I did this than it was the day before when I had the original problem. Even so the bike idled noticeably smoother and at about 400-500 rpm faster with the sensor in place. Needless to say I have put it back where it belongs and am now dealing with finding a new place to install the Koso sensor.
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post #7 of 7 Old 05-26-2011, 2:46 PM
 
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Re: 929 Hard to start cold and smells rich

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Originally Posted by soofle616 View Post
After trying a couple cold starts with and without the OEM sensor last night, it appears that is at least part of the problem. I don't know for sure because it was a lot warmer yesterday when I did this than it was the day before when I had the original problem. Even so the bike idled noticeably smoother and at about 400-500 rpm faster with the sensor in place. Needless to say I have put it back where it belongs and am now dealing with finding a new place to install the Koso sensor.
Hey don't mean to jack this thread or anything but I'm wondering if you have tried re-installing your flapper in the airbox? I took the flapper out of my 01 929 and since I did that it seems I have the same problems as you maybe not quite as bad. But tonight I'm gonna throw in back together and see if that helps any.

Good luck,
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