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Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

Thread: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-20-2013 9:44 PM
drae150
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad View Post
im so gald you posted this cause my 03 does it to and i was worried.
Just bought a salvaged '54, and it does the same thing. Glad to read its a normal condition on this bike. Just got to ride it for the first time at the track, and it ran fantastic! 2 hours of saddle time, and I'm in love with this bike!
12-01-2012 9:07 PM
kingcarlton
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

mine certainly does this, somedays it does seem a lot louder than others.
I've been told it's par for the course for the 954 and have never worried about it.
12-01-2012 11:41 AM
bladeracer
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportbike_Mike View Post
I do not doubt your assessment there BR. And that's why I asked earlier why these performance bikes don't have an OP gauge. (tangent: my 2005 Subaru STi only had an idiot light as well and I always thought that was odd too)
However, from my own knowledge and from the information I have received here, I'm going to conclude that it's the valve train: we all know metal will expand and contract when hot and cold respectively. Well if the valvetrain is cold and has contracted, then they may not be as 'set' as they are when they are warm. I hypothesize that this causes the clickety-clacking sounds. Even though oil is circulating through there, they will click until they expand to expected tolerances.
If the top-end was being starved of oil, like your 302 was, I'd suspect the clickety clacking wouldn't stop, and that I would have a burnt out top end.

An oil pressure gauge generally takes its reading from the main gallery as well though so the result is the same - it only tells you how much pressure you have at the pump, before the oil reaches the crank or camshafts. A mate of mine seized the cam in a TT600 despite it having adequate oil pressure at the pump.
Yes, certainly low temperature clearances will be wider than when the engine is at operating temp. But the valve clearances are specified to prevent excessive looseness in the valve train when cold due to the noise it makes and because it's so hard on the cams, buckets, valves and seats. Large clearances are akin to the cam lobe taking a long run-up before hitting the bucket and punching the valve open. It never hurts to check the clearances though to ensure they are within spec.
12-01-2012 11:22 AM
Sportbike_Mike
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
The oil pressure warning light is measuring pressure just after the pump. It is no indication of how much pressure you have down the line, particularly the cam journals. It does not guarantee you have pressure through the engine.
I had a Ford 302 that had oil pressure according to the pressure sensor, but the main gallery through the block was cracked internally just after the switch, zero oil pressure to anything after that point. Put three pumps in that engine before I worked out what was wrong :-)
I do not doubt your assessment there BR. And that's why I asked earlier why these performance bikes don't have an OP gauge. (tangent: my 2005 Subaru STi only had an idiot light as well and I always thought that was odd too)
However, from my own knowledge and from the information I have received here, I'm going to conclude that it's the valve train: we all know metal will expand and contract when hot and cold respectively. Well if the valvetrain is cold and has contracted, then they may not be as 'set' as they are when they are warm. I hypothesize that this causes the clickety-clacking sounds. Even though oil is circulating through there, they will click until they expand to expected tolerances.
If the top-end was being starved of oil, like your 302 was, I'd suspect the clickety clacking wouldn't stop, and that I would have a burnt out top end.
12-01-2012 5:16 AM
bladeracer
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by xopenex View Post
Im hearing a noise too. Wondering if its normal to hear sounds from the clutch engaged while in neutral. It gets softer as the bike warms up, but persists? Thanks.

If the noise stops when you pull the clutch lever in (loading up the clutch) then it's probably just the damper springs and nothing to worry about.
12-01-2012 5:14 AM
bladeracer
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportbike_Mike View Post
Spaz, I know how oil works. I know it will take slightly longer, but unless that oil light (don't know why these bikes don't have an OP gauge) is vastly inaccurate (as it goes off within two seconds of engine starting), oil is getting to that engine fairly quick. I'd bet my next paycheck it's circling through that engine long before all that ticking stops.
And allow me to reiterate that even before I switched to the thicker oil, it was still 'ticking' at startup.
And also let me reiterate that this is full synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is designed for excellent protection in cold weather.
I also let the bike idle until at least that ticking/clacking stops before I get on it and put it in gear and take off.

The oil pressure warning light is measuring pressure just after the pump. It is no indication of how much pressure you have down the line, particularly the cam journals. It does not guarantee you have pressure through the engine.
I had a Ford 302 that had oil pressure according to the pressure sensor, but the main gallery through the block was cracked internally just after the switch, zero oil pressure to anything after that point. Put three pumps in that engine before I worked out what was wrong :-)
12-01-2012 2:25 AM
lngball
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Great post I bought my 03 in July with 15k miles, and since the weather has changed mine has done the same thing and I was wondering why. Thanks for posting and answering the question.
11-30-2012 1:45 PM
Surteez
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Haha very good.

I thought you were from the north end of the country
11-30-2012 1:13 PM
Spaz
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surteez View Post
Where in the UK is Spaz from?
Originally Yarkshoire, now dwelling in Carrot cruncher land.
11-30-2012 12:54 PM
Surteez
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Where in the UK is Spaz from?
11-30-2012 12:22 PM
Sportbike_Mike
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyknick1015 View Post
Im not saying that you do have an oil leak but sometimes you never know, there might be hair line cracks somewhere and you wont ever know til last minute...

My sister bought a car that the guy put much higher viscosity oil in it to make the car look and seem good, no smoke no nothing. when we changed the oil though for the first time with normal oil, it was all types of trouble. its okay to do but im just saying every once in a while like 1 out of 4 oil changes, just use normal weight
Oh I know. I just bought a 2001 Accord that managed to burn about 2 quarts in less than two months. Took it to a mech and he confirmed valve seals need replacing but also hypothesized that the piston oil rings are worn as well (though compression is still excellent). But did say that as long as I kept oil in it, it should be fine until I can get a new engine/this one rebuilt.
It's not something that would've been known unless one actually drove it for a while.
11-30-2012 12:08 PM
nyknick1015
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportbike_Mike View Post
Well this bike doesn't have any leaks. I got it in August and ran the Rotella T that the seller said was in it, until the week before last when I changed it. I put about 2500 miles on it from August until then so I would've seen any leaking when I changed the oil.

I didn't put the higher viscosity in it to mask any oil leaks. I just wanted the maximum protection. Particularly in light of how hot they run and (as steve mentions) how thin their cases are.
I rode it in to work today (30 miles) in 36 degree weather and the coolant temp still stayed right at 83 deg/C even at 85mph. That thing is still a 'heater' even in this weather.

hung/xop/mad, I really dont' think you have anything to worry about. I was just curious as to why the valvetrain clacks for that long when it only takes a few seconds for the oil to circulate. But as well, I also think it is the injectors ticking, as they are doing max duty during a cold start, as the mixture tends to be rich until it warms up.
Im not saying that you do have an oil leak but sometimes you never know, there might be hair line cracks somewhere and you wont ever know til last minute...

My sister bought a car that the guy put much higher viscosity oil in it to make the car look and seem good, no smoke no nothing. when we changed the oil though for the first time with normal oil, it was all types of trouble. its okay to do but im just saying every once in a while like 1 out of 4 oil changes, just use normal weight
11-30-2012 12:00 PM
Sportbike_Mike
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
I understand that you had the ticking before, however there WILL be more cold start engine wear with a heavier oil fact. Synthetic oil can be a bitch with clutches too, just saying like.

The heavier oil might be a fact to some extent, however...
Is Synthetic Oil Better?
Quote:
It flows easier in cold weather, therefore no loss of prime when the oil is cold. Also, it is highly resistant to viscosity breakdown (the ability of the oil to flow easily in all temps) from heat, friction, chemical contaminants.

Easier Engine Cold Start
Quote:
Good Synthetic Motor Oils remain fluid in the coldest operating conditions. Maintaining their fluidity and protecting ability in temperatures as frigid as -60F, this not only permits easy engine cranking for quick starts, but flows to critical engine components in a quarter of the time that conventional oils take. Considering that up to 60 percent of all engine wear occurs during cold starts, this immediate lubrication is essential to long-term engine life.
Spaz, I do vehemently appreciate the advice (as that's what we're here for), but this ain't my first engine oil rodeo. LOL
Plus I did a shitload of research as well.
11-30-2012 11:23 AM
Spaz
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

I understand that you had the ticking before, however there WILL be more cold start engine wear with a heavier oil fact. Synthetic oil can be a bitch with clutches too, just saying like.
11-30-2012 11:19 AM
Sportbike_Mike
Re: 954 Cold start ticking/clicking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
A heavier weight oil will take longer to get pumped round the oilways at startup, given the engine wear mostly occurs at startup, you are fooling yourself and shortening the life of your engine.
Spaz, I know how oil works. I know it will take slightly longer, but unless that oil light (don't know why these bikes don't have an OP gauge) is vastly inaccurate (as it goes off within two seconds of engine starting), oil is getting to that engine fairly quick. I'd bet my next paycheck it's circling through that engine long before all that ticking stops.
And allow me to reiterate that even before I switched to the thicker oil, it was still 'ticking' at startup.
And also let me reiterate that this is full synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is designed for excellent protection in cold weather.
I also let the bike idle until at least that ticking/clacking stops before I get on it and put it in gear and take off.
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