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Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

Thread: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-23-2004 7:48 PM
abtech
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie
If the bike feels like it is kicking you in the butt, try some more rebound damping. When you stand at the rear of the bike and push down hard on the seat, you want to see the suspension come back up somewhat slowly, it should not spring back up immediately. The kick in the butt feeling is often a sign of too little rebound rather than too much compression. Though my feeling on compression is that the spring should do most of it, and you should use as little compression damping at the rear as you are comfortable with.

Ernie
A good staring point for both the front and rear is to push down on the bike and note how long it takes to rebound. Theoretically, it should rebound at the same speed as the "push". If it's slower, you need less rebound. Conversely, if it's faster, you need more rebound. This routine is based on a properly adjusted compression setting, or in other words, one that doesn't nose dive or squat excessively with the sag set correctly.
06-23-2004 7:09 PM
John1000RR
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

I've done a little more playing with my suspension and its improving. My current settings seem to be along the same lines as you guys. You may be interested.

The settings for road use. May wish to go a little harder for track work.

Front
Preload is two turns harder than std
Compression is one turn harder than std
Rebound currently std (may adjust soon)

Rear
Preload is pos 3 (1 softer than std)
Compression is 4 clicks softer than std
Rebound currently std

I found that the major issue with the rear being hard is the compression setting. I'm pretty sure that the rebound may be a little to great as well, but I'll check it out this weekend.

Just for the books I weigh 85kgs std. Probably more with leathers, boots etc.

06-22-2004 2:18 AM
Ernie
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

If the bike feels like it is kicking you in the butt, try some more rebound damping. When you stand at the rear of the bike and push down hard on the seat, you want to see the suspension come back up somewhat slowly, it should not spring back up immediately. The kick in the butt feeling is often a sign of too little rebound rather than too much compression. Though my feeling on compression is that the spring should do most of it, and you should use as little compression damping at the rear as you are comfortable with.

Ernie
06-22-2004 1:45 AM
jnonny
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by John1000RR
I've just purchased a CBR1000RR and am having a little trouble trying to get the suspensions set for the road.

I weigh 185, that's about 85kgs and ride reasonably hard. The roads around my way are a bit on the rough side. I round the rear suspension to be too firm. I felt every little bump and was often kicked from the seat. The bike still held straight though. I've started decreasing the compression damping on the rear. I'm now down to pos 6. I also decreased the spring preload 1 notch to pos 3.

For the front I found it soft. Especially under brakes. At the moment I've just upped the preload by 1 1/2 turns from std. I'm going to try uping the compression damping. I don't want to get too much jarring from the front.

Hope someone can assist.
--One thing I've noticed is that sometimes a lack of rebound dampening can create the feeling of a stiff/firm ride.. --as the suspension reacts to the "bump" it compresses to a degree but can transition to the chassis a bit (depending on "bump" size), so you'll have a bit of upward motion.. but within that instant, if there is a lack of rebound dampening the suspension/spring will begin to expand too quickly, actually magnifying the "bump" in a way..

--Just something I've noticed in the past, and actually this weekend as I was tinkering with my 1000RR's suspension..
06-22-2004 1:16 AM
jnonny
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

--The 1000RR definitely has the "soft" spring trend.. At ~190lbs (without gear), could only get down to ~45mm in the front with pre-load maxed.. the rear seems to have plenty of adjustment, so I actually backed off pre-load (to pos 3) on the rear to ballance out the front a bit.. wound up with front: ~45mm and rear: ~39mm.. --Seemed to work "ok" over the weekend as I was tinkering with the dampening setings.. But looks like a set of springs will be added to the to-do list..
06-21-2004 7:50 AM
bidwell
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by John1000RR
I've just purchased a CBR1000RR and am having a little trouble trying to get the suspensions set for the road.

I weigh 185, that's about 85kgs and ride reasonably hard. The roads around my way are a bit on the rough side. I round the rear suspension to be too firm. I felt every little bump and was often kicked from the seat. The bike still held straight though. I've started decreasing the compression damping on the rear. I'm now down to pos 6. I also decreased the spring preload 1 notch to pos 3.

For the front I found it soft. Especially under brakes. At the moment I've just upped the preload by 1 1/2 turns from std. I'm going to try uping the compression damping. I don't want to get too much jarring from the front.

Hope someone can assist.
Try max preload in the front, for the road you should be fine. If not, the front springs will have to be changed to something stiffer. The rest of the changes you made appear to be going in the right direction.
06-21-2004 2:54 AM
John1000RR
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

I've just purchased a CBR1000RR and am having a little trouble trying to get the suspensions set for the road.

I weigh 185, that's about 85kgs and ride reasonably hard. The roads around my way are a bit on the rough side. I round the rear suspension to be too firm. I felt every little bump and was often kicked from the seat. The bike still held straight though. I've started decreasing the compression damping on the rear. I'm now down to pos 6. I also decreased the spring preload 1 notch to pos 3.

For the front I found it soft. Especially under brakes. At the moment I've just upped the preload by 1 1/2 turns from std. I'm going to try uping the compression damping. I don't want to get too much jarring from the front.

Hope someone can assist.
06-20-2004 12:43 PM
bidwell
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie
The myth that Honda uses softer springs to keep the front end down is just that, a myth. The whole point of suspension is travel. If your front springs are so soft that you lose a full inch of travel, you effectively reduce the bikes response to braking and road variation by 20%. That is a huge amount. Honda uses soft springs as do all bike manufacturers. The front springs are probably high .7 or low .8. They are certainly not .9.

Reggie Pridmore says he is bottoming out and getting the front end to skip with stock springs. Of course he is a few pounds heavier than 150.

Ernie
I doubt they're between .7 and .8 only because the 600RR comes with .81s as per the Race tech website. The .90 figure came from someone that had his forks done by Dan Kyle and the stockers were supposedly measured, it was on one of the 1000RR boards (maybe even this one).

Re your statement on suspension travel a few things should be pointed out. 1) More sag does not keep the front end down, it keeps the front wheel in contact with the ground for more control. 2) You are not losing one inch of travel by having more sag, suspension travel works both ways: it extends as well as compresses. Sag only defines how much travel is used while sitting in your garage, not under dynamic road or track conditions. 3) It should also be pointed out that with stock springs I'm getting about 40mm of static sag, that's only about 5mm more than the "rule of thumb" so often quoted.

That being said there's no question Honda should have used stiffer front springs, it would have fit a broader range of riders. I would be willing to bet most are heavier than me, it almost seems like the rates were chosen based on an average weight of about 130lbs.
06-20-2004 12:10 PM
Ernie
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by bidwell
The front springs are not necessarily soft just because the sag is higher than what has been traditionally considered normal. Remember, PRELOAD ONLY ADJUSTS RIDE HEIGHT, NOT SPRING STIFFNESS. The 1000RR (and others I've heard) have been designed with higher front sag in order to help keep the front end planted which allows better control and faster lap times. I believe the front springs are .90 kg/mm but that would have to be confirmed. What I have confirmed is that the front does not bottom out with me on it under the heaviest braking done at Road America last week. The front preload is set at 14 turns in (or 2 turns less than max), the rear preload is on the 3rd from softest, damping settings are all stock.

Overall the stock suspension worked great for my scrawny 155lb frame (without gear). That's not to say riders over 190 lbs or so won't need to change out the springs however.
The myth that Honda uses softer springs to keep the front end down is just that, a myth. The whole point of suspension is travel. If your front springs are so soft that you lose a full inch of travel, you effectively reduce the bikes response to braking and road variation by 20%. That is a huge amount. Honda uses soft springs as do all bike manufacturers. The front springs are probably high .7 or low .8. They are certainly not .9.

Reggie Pridmore says he is bottoming out and getting the front end to skip with stock springs. Of course he is a few pounds heavier than 150.

Ernie
06-20-2004 11:19 AM
Smitty929RR
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Stock preload setting gave me a 1" sag reading (front) and I'm big as a house.
And I'm a half turn out from stock on comp. so far, still tweaking. 3 times the front has slid on me (but I'll start a new thread rather than hijack).

Needed #9 in the rear setting to get it.
06-20-2004 10:04 AM
ratter
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Normally honda have been using a spring approx .78 kg which is too light for most riders, this may not be the case with the 1000 but I'm sure the 929 and 954 where somewhere around this figure, most average guys need .90 or .95's to get things correct
06-20-2004 9:32 AM
bidwell
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

The front springs are not necessarily soft just because the sag is higher than what has been traditionally considered normal. Remember, PRELOAD ONLY ADJUSTS RIDE HEIGHT, NOT SPRING STIFFNESS. The 1000RR (and others I've heard) have been designed with higher front sag in order to help keep the front end planted which allows better control and faster lap times. I believe the front springs are .90 kg/mm but that would have to be confirmed. What I have confirmed is that the front does not bottom out with me on it under the heaviest braking done at Road America last week. The front preload is set at 14 turns in (or 2 turns less than max), the rear preload is on the 3rd from softest, damping settings are all stock.

Overall the stock suspension worked great for my scrawny 155lb frame (without gear). That's not to say riders over 190 lbs or so won't need to change out the springs however.
06-19-2004 11:29 AM
Ernie
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Unfortunately Honda has done it again. At 150 pounds I have a hard time getting correct sag. 14 turns on the forks. Soft springs


My guidelines for sag are about 32-35 front and 26-30 rear. I am using the #2 position on the shock. (sorry,I was, I have a penske now).

Ernie
06-18-2004 5:33 PM
jnonny
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Thanks for the detailed info/feedback.. guess there's ultimately going to be some "grey area" with respect to the "best" settings..

--Found the following guidelines for Sag Settings on the Race Tech website:

Street Bikes ===> 28-33% Susp Travel = 30-35mm Front and Rear
Road Race ====> 23-27% Susp Travel = 25-30mm Front and Rear


--Gonna see if I can't find a happy medium and get the settings squared away tonight.. Seems like it makes sense to increase the sag a bit up front to help keep the front wheel planted exiting corners on the throttle.. --I'm hoping the 1000RR will have stiff enough springs for proper sag at ~190lbs.. Seem to recall Honda having a trend of using softer fork springs in the past.. Anyway, will find out tonight.. Thanks again..
06-18-2004 4:43 AM
immortal
Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Straight from HRC on suspension!

http://world.honda.com/HRC/tech/result/all_s02.html

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