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Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

Thread: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-17-2004 12:18 AM
victoRR
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR929RE
what bolt ons did you do? my friend has a 88 mustang with a 347 stroker that he built and a Tremec. Last year he did 12.2, this year he put a bigger intake on (the one he shoulda did to begin with) and 4.30s in the rear end and a couple other little things and got it dyno tuned and did a 12.1 this year. And those are on ET Street slicks. sucks eh spent like $2000 to go a tenth faster.


the 954 swap would be so sweet. I like the looks of the 929 better (don't like all the sapce above the 954 headlight) plus there's no Erion 954. But the 980 overbore would also be sweet.
My car was a 1992 LX Coupe
11's and only $900 in bolt ons. Courtesy of NX. 11.70/118mph. Granted it's not the best trap speed but it sure was fun. I had 3.73 gears, stock tranny and clutch. Exhaust: Mac Longtubes/Hpipe. Motor: Pullies, CAI, 65mm Throttle body, 75mm MAF, 24lb. injectors. That was about it....yes NX = Nitrous Express.

That motor loved the 175 shot. It was risky I know, but I made numerous passes on that setup. No problems except for the stock clutch. What helped my times was the Eibach Drag Launch kit. (Suspension) and a pair of 26X10.5" ET Streets.

My buddy Dave has a 347 stroker in his 95GT. He brought the weight down to about 3k lbs even. His best so far is a 12.10/118 before shedding 300lbs.

I would like to get more info on the 954 swap. I know it'll fit and everything matched up except the harness. I need to find out which ones will be affected and if the 954 harness will work.
11-17-2004 12:07 AM
CBR929RE
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Quote:
Originally Posted by victoRR
Well I can assure you I am not a Ford Mechanic, but i've owned 4 Fords in the past. All Mustangs :-) Including one 11 second Mustang with just minimal bolt ons.

I've had everything apart but i've been too busy to get what I need. I know the size of the helicoil I need, now it's a matter of finding it at a local parts store and gettin to it. The head is currently sitting on the ground with plastic around it.

I am going to call Ron Ayers finally to get my headbolts (just in case) and all new cam cap bolts with washers (just in case). Oops I forgot about the head gasket too.


All this work and I should just do a 954RR swap. What was it that needed to be extended? I know it's one of those senor plugs/wires.
what bolt ons did you do? my friend has a 88 mustang with a 347 stroker that he built and a Tremec. Last year he did 12.2, this year he put a bigger intake on (the one he shoulda did to begin with) and 4.30s in the rear end and a couple other little things and got it dyno tuned and did a 12.1 this year. And those are on ET Street slicks. sucks eh spent like $2000 to go a tenth faster.


the 954 swap would be so sweet. I like the looks of the 929 better (don't like all the sapce above the 954 headlight) plus there's no Erion 954. But the 980 overbore would also be sweet.
11-17-2004 12:01 AM
victoRR
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR929RE
haha

Victor is the "friend" that helped you a Ford mechanic because that would explain the whole thing. My friend is a Ford mechanic but I make sure I'm always there when he's working on my car (with the execption of the fuel pump cause I had to have the car towed to his house and I lived 18 miles away at school). I don't completely know what I'm doing but I know when he's shortcutting something. Ford mechanics typically do NOT torque anything.

Well I can assure you I am not a Ford Mechanic, but i've owned 4 Fords in the past. All Mustangs :-) Including one 11 second Mustang with just minimal bolt ons.

I've had everything apart but i've been too busy to get what I need. I know the size of the helicoil I need, now it's a matter of finding it at a local parts store and gettin to it. The head is currently sitting on the ground with plastic around it.

I am going to call Ron Ayers finally to get my headbolts (just in case) and all new cam cap bolts with washers (just in case). Oops I forgot about the head gasket too.


All this work and I should just do a 954RR swap. What was it that needed to be extended? I know it's one of those senor plugs/wires.
10-21-2004 9:44 PM
CBR929RE
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Quote:
Originally Posted by abtech
Loctite 609 means "never having to say I'm sorry . . ."
haha

Victor is the "friend" that helped you a Ford mechanic because that would explain the whole thing. My friend is a Ford mechanic but I make sure I'm always there when he's working on my car (with the execption of the fuel pump cause I had to have the car towed to his house and I lived 18 miles away at school). I don't completely know what I'm doing but I know when he's shortcutting something. Ford mechanics typically do NOT torque anything.
10-21-2004 3:26 PM
abtech
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Loctite 609 means "never having to say I'm sorry . . ."
10-21-2004 2:50 PM
Machinist
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

** Loctite 217 ** is RED High Strength used for Fastener's under 1 inch in damp and oily condition,s. You could also use ** Loctite 290 ** Wicking Grade ( Medium Strength) green / blue , I used the 271 on my 954 it tend's to work better in Wet / Oily Condition's and is Also ROLL"S ROYCE certified for use in Aircfaft Engines and Gear - boxes. removeing bolt,s with ** 271 ** on them is a Bit more Difficult but won't damage Thread's as say * Loctite 609 *
( Retaining compound ) this type you do not want to use unless you want the Bolt's in Perminently
10-21-2004 2:37 PM
Mavic
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

VictoRR,
No worries on the manual. Just get the bike running right and then give me a call when you are done. If you need any tools or help you can always give me a call on my cell and I will do my best to get the stuff or help you need. Best of luck!!

Once you finalize the size of helicoil you need, post it up and I will try and get the appropriate pieces to get the job done.
10-21-2004 1:07 PM
Zippy
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

The 271 Loc-tite is the red stuff?
10-21-2004 12:08 PM
Machinist
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

The ** HELI - COIL ** kit you need is , Part Number - HLC5403-6 , It cost's
$ 95.00 here in Canada, The kit part number is the Same in the States, I order them from The STATES on a regular basis.The Kit will contain every thing you need to do the Job. Use some DRILL / TAP fluid to drill and tap the new hole the cutting fluid will help. If you don't have any you can use Vegatable oil in a Pinch. After you drill and tap the hole clean it out with some ** M. E. K. ** or even some Varsol will work, Make sure the new hole is dry , Put some ** LOCTITE 271 ** on the O/D of the Heli - Coil prior to installation, I use a lot of HELI - Coil's at my JOB, We Rebuild HELI COPTER
Turbine Engine's and use a lot of them in the MAGNESIUM Gear Boxes. I replaced the Cam's In My 954 With The ** ERION PERFORMANCE ** Cams and yes the Cap bolt's would be Easy to Strip Hope This Help's.
10-19-2004 3:53 PM
G-Force Junkie
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

The heli coild kit should include the tap, called an STI tap, inserts, and an insertion tool, and sometime the drill you'll need. 99% of the hundreds of helicoils I install every year I can start by hand...but those M6 1.0 always need the darn insertion tool to prewind them. The inserts come in 3 lengths, the medium ones should work fine. Depending on how deep the hole is, you need to make sure you tap it deep enough. If its a shallow hole, you may need to modify your tap by grinding some of the end off to make it into a plug or bottom tap. On a normal taper tap, the first 5-7 threads dont cut to full depth so your hole has to be at least twice as deep as your insert. If the hole is shallow, drill it out, tap it as deep as is will go, then grind the end of the tap a few threads off and retap to get those lower threads. When you wind the insert in and break off the retaining tab, be sure you retrieve it with some tweasers or something, dont leave it in there or let it fall in your motor!
10-19-2004 3:32 PM
Joel
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Zippy's right on with the kit suggestions.

If you are sure the head bolts are torqued correctly you should be OK there. Not sure about the cap bolts. They're not huge and I suspect they won't handle a large over-torque situation very well. You may want to inspect and / or replace the copper crush washers that go under the cap bolts.

Another thing I started thinking about is your cam shafts. I wonder if there's a possibility they may be bent as a result of this. It may be worth your while to inspect them while you have the cams out.
10-19-2004 1:44 PM
Zippy
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Napa stores have the kits. The price is about $35.00 and it includes tap, tool and inserts for one thread size. Make sure you use oil when cutting the threads and run the tap in and out of the new threads a couple of times to get them cleaned up. Be careful with the shavings.

I think you'll need the Heli-coil tap because it is a different size than the standard sizes in a normal tap and die kit. If someone is sure on this, please chime in.

Most autoparts stores will not have the Helicoil kits, or will only have the sparkplug sizes. I tried several stores before I found that Napa had them.
10-19-2004 3:52 AM
victoRR
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

When I assembled everything back after the valve replacement, I torqued the headbolts to spec with my torque wrench. The only thing I didn't do myself were the cam caps/holder that just so happened to fail on me without my supervision. Trust me, I am very meticulous with the exception of what I am about to type later in this post. I am in all honesty trying to do this job with the head still on. I am confident I can swing the motor down.

Hell the front half of the bike is off anyway. I have no problems purchasing new headbolts but like I said I am sure I can get away with the motor in-tact. I don't want to shortcut it completely but I KNOW it can be done.

Where can I pick up a helicoil kit? Would local parts stores have anything like that? I borrowed a tap and die set and before I return it, is it of any use to me or will the helicoil kit come with what I need?

What am I looking at pricewise?
10-18-2004 3:13 PM
abtech
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel
Sorry about the problem with the assembly of the head. That sucks.

As far as the helicoil you need to purchase a 6mmX1.00 helicoil kit. That will come with the proper tap and some helicoils.

My recomendation is that you purchase a complete set of head bolts. I know Honda says they're re-useable, but you've already had them in and out once and you have no idea how they were torqued. You do not want one of them to snap on you during re-assembly.


Listen to Joel, he's been there before . . .
10-18-2004 11:48 AM
Joel
Re: Technical-Head/Camshaft assembly question

Sorry about the problem with the assembly of the head. That sucks.

As far as the helicoil you need to purchase a 6mmX1.00 helicoil kit. That will come with the proper tap and some helicoils.

My recomendation is that you purchase a complete set of head bolts. I know Honda says they're re-useable, but you've already had them in and out once and you have no idea how they were torqued. You do not want one of them to snap on you during re-assembly.
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