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Thread: Broken BMW... Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-18-2005 4:00 PM
EDDIE110171
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Force Junkie
Actualy it is desolved into liquid acetone that is suspended in a porous material in the tank.
Opps, I did leave the acetone out. You would be suprised how many people bring back acetylene tanks saying its defective, because they lay the tanks down flat and the liquid acetone comes out of the torch.
10-18-2005 3:47 PM
BDA116
Re: Broken BMW...

Would it be important to know the supply rate and consumption of your BMW then as well?
10-18-2005 3:40 PM
G-Force Junkie
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDIE110171
Acetylene is nasty stuff. If most people knew how they fill the tanks they wouldn't want it in their car at all. It takes 24 hours to fill a tank. There is a porous rock inside to keep the acetylene pooling, because if too much of it gets together it can become unstable.
Actualy it is desolved into liquid acetone that is suspended in a porous material in the tank. In the old days it was a natural cellulose material, modern ones are synthetic now. Its similar to the way CO2 is desolved into sod pop and released when the pressure is reduced (open the can or bottle). Like all gasses that are desolved into a liquid, they can only desolve, or expell at perticular rates hence the importance to know the supply rate of your tank(s) and the consumption of your torch(s).
10-18-2005 2:40 PM
EDDIE110171
Re: Broken BMW...

Acetylene is nasty stuff. If most people knew how they fill the tanks they wouldn't want it in their car at all. It takes 24 hours to fill a tank. There is a porous rock inside to keep the acetylene pooling, because if too much of it gets together it can become unstable.
10-18-2005 1:57 PM
bubba
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by motojedi
Our newspaper prints unsubstantiated third-hand information all the time.
OH, you heard that too?
10-18-2005 10:46 AM
motojedi
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba
why was a woman wearing a wool sweater in august/september?

sounds like another urban legend
Yep, you figured it out. Our newspaper prints unsubstantiated third-hand information all the time. And here in Indy its like 95 deg. in mid-September. Oh yeah, and wool sweaters only come in the really thick winter weight. Ever heard of cashmere ?

I'm sure thats why every gas station on the planet has NO SMOKING and NO CELL PHONE USE signs plastered all over the place. They get all their info from urban legends too.
10-18-2005 8:23 AM
bubba
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by motojedi
Actually it happened here in Indianapolis about a month ago. Woman in a wool sweater caught her arm on fire while fueling her car. It was in the paper.
why was a woman wearing a wool sweater in august/september?

sounds like another urban legend
10-17-2005 4:43 PM
gt702
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRVFR
...and so the Ford Pinto was born!
No affiliation, that was long before my time.

And no, we aren't talking about Crown Vics either ... I better shut up now.
10-17-2005 4:03 PM
CBRVFR
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt702
BTW, some years back I witnessed testing of a plastic fuel tank to see what would happen if there was a spark from the fuel pump when the mixture was right. They put a spark plug in it and kept hitting it with juice. The tanks would swell to twice their size, but contained the blast ... several times. Which meant I didn't have to do anymore research on the subject.

...and so the Ford Pinto was born!
10-17-2005 3:02 PM
gt702
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND4SPD
Not to stir the pot or anything, but isn't it usually the gas fumes that catch fire before the gas itself? I was always taught that if I needed to do any welding on a gas tank it's better to work with a full tank of gas than an empty one.
Not stirring the pot, you are right on almost. Liquid gasoline doesn't burn, only the vapors when the mix with oxygen in the right ratio. The vapors burning above a pool of gas just means more vapor comes out. In a closed space, there will be too rich a mixture to ignite, which is why they can put electric fuel pumps in the fuel tanks.

This is an important concept when filling a tank because the liquid going in is pushing the vapor out where it can mix with oxygen. Wool sweaters on cloth (plastic threads) seats generate some good static charges. If not grounded/discharged before the vapor comes out, there can be serious consequences when it arcs to ground.

BTW, some years back I witnessed testing of a plastic fuel tank to see what would happen if there was a spark from the fuel pump when the mixture was right. They put a spark plug in it and kept hitting it with juice. The tanks would swell to twice their size, but contained the blast ... several times. Which meant I didn't have to do anymore research on the subject.
10-17-2005 2:43 PM
CBR929RE
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by motojedi
Actually it happened here in Indianapolis about a month ago. Woman in a wool sweater caught her arm on fire while fueling her car. It was in the paper.
while talking on a cell phone?
also remember her arm was right at the nozzle/filler neck so her shirt got saturated in gas vapors, its the vapors that are more dangerous than the actual liquid.
10-17-2005 2:40 PM
ND4SPD
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt702
Exactly what I was referring to earlier. They have a hard time getting gasoline to ignite with an open fire, and then they make claims that it must not be true.

From a long experience with gasoline and intrisic safety issues, if the fuel-air mixture is correct, it takes very little energy to ignite the mixture. There is the opportunity for little clouds of correct mixture when fueling, and there is potential for a hot spot (might be from some of the recalled batteries that have been in the public) to ignite said mixture. Chances are very small, but still there, especially if you have a plastic fuel tank and the filler neck ground is disconnected. I think there was at least 1 recall for that in the past too.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be the first person documented
Not to stir the pot or anything, but isn't it usually the gas fumes that catch fire before the gas itself? I was always taught that if I needed to do any welding on a gas tank it's better to work with a full tank of gas than an empty one.
10-17-2005 2:37 PM
motojedi
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro
But you'd rather believe an Urban legend which has never actually happened.
Actually it happened here in Indianapolis about a month ago. Woman in a wool sweater caught her arm on fire while fueling her car. It was in the paper.
10-17-2005 2:22 PM
gt702
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phobiaphobe
Anyone see the episode where they threw lit cigarettes into a pool of gas and NOTHING HAPPENED?
Exactly what I was referring to earlier. They have a hard time getting gasoline to ignite with an open fire, and then they make claims that it must not be true.

From a long experience with gasoline and intrisic safety issues, if the fuel-air mixture is correct, it takes very little energy to ignite the mixture. There is the opportunity for little clouds of correct mixture when fueling, and there is potential for a hot spot (might be from some of the recalled batteries that have been in the public) to ignite said mixture. Chances are very small, but still there, especially if you have a plastic fuel tank and the filler neck ground is disconnected. I think there was at least 1 recall for that in the past too.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be the first person documented
10-17-2005 2:07 PM
nedro
Re: Broken BMW...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phobiaphobe
Anyone see the episode where they threw lit cigarettes into a pool of gas and NOTHING HAPPENED?
Don't be stupid! They obviously didn't know how to throw it in correctly. Had they, it surely would've blown up the entire block. It happens all the time.
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