ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

OK. *For those of you tuning in late, you might want to bring yourself up to speed by reading over the following thread on the old board: LINK

willi, here's my explanation.

I think Bacchus said it best when he suggested, 'the gun is very safe in competent hands' - and that's really the crux of my position. *You very well may be a person well versed in pistolcraft; I have no clue because I don't know you, but if say you're a serious enthusiast that takes his gun handling and marksmanship seriously, I'll stipulate to that. *Thus, when wielded in your hands or the hands of another competent individual, Glocks can be considered a safe weapon. *But it's all relative.

When Glock was initially designed, it was done so for the Austrian Armed Forces. *Of those personnel deemed appropriate to carry a sidearm in addition to the battle rifle, the Glock was it. However, the pistol was initially designed with the express intent to be carried chamber empty, as the make-ready protocol and training for the Aussies involved a draw, charge, point and fire scenario.

Regardless of what someone might tell you, the Glock line is not, and I repeat NOT, a DA (double-action) design. *Glock's action is actually proprietary - they call it 'Safe Action' but the weapon system is really an SA (single-action) with unique safety features, i.e., the internal trigger 'safety.'

The Glock, when carried chamber hot, is capable of discharging in a very finite set of circumstances even if you don't pull the trigger. *There have been a small number of LEO training scenarios which have resulted in Glocks actually discharging while in an officer's holster for instance (one such incident on the west coast involved a baton blow to the side of the holstered pistol during a defensive tactics drill). Other discharges have resulted from the weapon being dropped on a hard surface, usually involving a strike to the rearmost portion of the slide.

The comparatively light trigger pull of the Glock line was addressed when the NYPD adopted Glock as the new sidearm for the force of 30,000 some-odd cops. *Accused of being too much of a 'hair trigger,' Glock altered the trigger pull of the weapons ordered and deployed them throughout the ranks of the NYPD. *The 'New York Trigger' was born, one requiring a much harder pull in order to get the gun to go bang.

Anyway, the general point I'm trying to make is... go ahead and love your Glock. *It's a fine weapon and it's quite popular (due in large part to Hollywood). *Yet the statement you made in the thread referenced up above, 'a Glock is the safest pistol made, bar none' isn't really born out in truth, at least not as far as I'm concerned. *But I didn't really take your comment as some fellow getting sanctimonious as much as it sounded like a guy who really loves the 'Fantastic Plastic' sounding off about his favorite pistol. *So no offense.

In summary, I maintain that Glock isn't the safest personal defense weapon for the average end user. *A modern, transfer-bar DA revolver is unquestionably safer as a knock around the nightstand home defense gun and is a bit more idiot proof than just about any automatic, Glock included. *Especially at 0-dark-thirty in the morning when some asshole's coming through your patio door and you're coming out of a deep sleep with all of twenty seconds to react...

YMMV - I just tell you what I tell you based on 15 years of law enforcement experience, most of those spent as an enthusiast handgunner to boot.

Edit: a couple typos, because I'm anal.



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post #2 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:35 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

people who cant handle a weapon should not.
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post #3 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

Quote:
figment : people who cant handle a weapon should not.
Who said that they should?
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post #4 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:39 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

poeple who try to blame the tool.
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post #5 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:41 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

As a long time owner of 1911 and a 92F I was VERY adverse to a hammerless and non-selectable safe weapon.

However that has really changed for me, to a large degree as the results of VERY favorable feedback and advice of an LEO pal of mine (who was sort of my fire-arms and MC mentor, both of which were challenging since he was born with no thumbs... but that's another story..).

I don't have anywhere near the carry or LEO experience that CS does but I've spoken with a number of LEO's and they all feel comfortable carring the Glock.

Count me as a big GLOCK fan now and I feel prefectly safe using a Glock as my carry weapon.
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post #6 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:42 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

I've got a Sig P220, but I don't keep a round in the chamber anyway.
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post #7 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:45 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

Okay chain, I buy that... You've been 'in it' way longer than me, so I definitly appreciate your point of view and your experience.

I'd be willing to bet though, that the circumstances in which a Glock was AD inside a holster may have done the same thing with other auto loaders... Maybe not, but maybe so, we'll never know...

Bottom line, in your scenario where I have 20 seconds to react in the night... I like my glock, there is no 'exterior safety' for me to fumble with when I need it the most. I just point and squeeze, thats a natural motion... Every trigger pull is the same as the one before it... Its as safe as a double action revolver as long as the G doesn't have the 3.5 lb target trigger. All carry glocks should have, IMO, at a minimum, the standard 5lb pull or even the 7lb option. YOu get the light take up at first, (which pulls the striker back) and then you 'hit' the 5 lb wall that is the actual trigger...

And yes, I still contend that if you keep your finger off the trigger of a glock, its as good as being empty... But I am very stubborn when it comes to things I trust... That includes my glock, my honda RC51, my vanson leathers and my Toyota Tundra...

And the only reason glocks are popular in movies is because the are black and just look bad, so of course some guy shooting up a mall or something, what else would a director have him shooting? Desert eagle's are a close second to the glock in that regard...

At least we agree to disagree... Oh yeah, and silver/red is faster than silver/black everytime!
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post #8 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:45 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

I luv Sigies too
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post #9 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

Quote:
Holeshot : I don't have anywhere near the carry or LEO experience that CS does but I've spoken with a number of LEO's and they all feel comfortable carring the Glock.
There are fans in every corner, and detractors too. Trust me on this. My agency is about 750 sworn strong. The Glock .40 in various iterations became standardized as the only weapon officers could carry after Jan. 1, 1996. For every person who loves his/her Glock, there is at least one who rues the day OPD said Glocks or nothing to the troops.

Anyway, the point is, the Glock's a safe enough weapon in a fairly proficient person's hands. For others it's not really the best choice. The analogy I'll provide is this: While a beginner rider might very well be 'safe' on an EX500, he's probably not 'safe' with a GSX-R1000. Make sense?
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post #10 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:47 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

Oh, and I do keep one in the pipe at all times and inside a Sidearmor kydex holster...
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post #11 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

Quote:
ConqSoft : I've got a Sig P220, but I don't keep a round in the chamber anyway.
(Revolvers aren't pistols, just for the sake of being anal with everyone here - autos are pistols.)

Above notation aside, if there are a handful of pistols that you can feel very, very safe and secure about carrying chamber hot, the Sig is one of them. *Excellent weapon system.
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post #12 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:49 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

if you're not able to train enough to know what to do with your deadly force, you have no business carrying.
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post #13 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

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ccwilli3 : Oh, and I do keep one in the pipe at all times and inside a Sidearmor kydex holster...
You're a guy who I'm feeling is pretty serious about his hobbies, guncraft included. So the answer I'll give you is different than the answer I'd give just anyone.

Yes.

Why? The holster rig you've got covers the trigger group and you're a skilled pistolman.
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post #14 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:51 AM
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

Is it true that the .40 S&W was developed for female FBI agents? The 10mm cartridge was the round of choice I was told, but femail agents couldn't comfortably handle the 10mm round so the chopped it down and put a small primer on it and called it a .40 S&W...

Any truth to that? Thats the story I was told on the development of the .40 S&W round...
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post #15 of 174 Old 05-11-2003, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: ccwilli's GLOCK's aren't safe post

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figment : if you're not able to train enough to know what to do with your deadly force, you have no business carrying.

I haven't the foggiest idea where you're going with this, Figment.
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