two strokes ain't dead....yet - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 7:10 AM Thread Starter
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two strokes ain't dead....yet

thought you might like to see some work in progress, it's a concept design for a 2-stroke. It's a principle that's usually applied to marine diesel uniflow 2-strokes (the most efficient internal combustion engines on the planet), but I though that given the trend towards ever-smaller capacities and supercharging, the time might be right for something like this. Scavenging and supercharging is done by a screw compressor, inlet is via cam-operated poppet valves and direct combustion chamber fuel injection. This is spark ignition but could also be a diesel, although they have fallen out of favour recently because of NOx. Exhaust is via exhaust ports on both sides of the cylinder which gives an enormous port area, so the port roof can be lower, giving a longer power stroke. This has a bore:stroke ratio of 1:1 which these days is very low, it won't rev above 7000rpm but doesn't have to because of supercharging - bmep is therefore high at 262psi, giving 250 bhp from 800cc. Very long conrods give little sidethrust on the pistons, which enables lower lubricant levels to be used, and thus lower oil loss through the exhaust port as the rings pass over it. It'll be very loud, think of a kawasaki kettle on steroids. A lot of steroids.
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 2:46 PM
 
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

There a rumor floating around (and apparently a new patent filed) that Honda is bringing a 500cc 2-stroke machine to the dirt track.

-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #3 of 13 Old 08-18-2017, 3:22 PM
 
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

Very interesting OB.

I also heard the new 500 2smoker rumor.
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-22-2017, 3:59 AM
 
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

Wow!
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post #5 of 13 Old 10-25-2017, 8:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

Gradually getting there....have given myself a bit of a challenge because the exhaust ports are on both sides of the cylinder. And because I can't ignore the advantages of a good expansion chamber type exhaust, the pipework is gonna be a bit convoluted. What looks like a radiator out in front is an intercooler, this thing will run 2 bar boost and that needs an intercooler. Not completely convinced that the airbox design will work, it defintely wouldn't with natural aspiration, but this is supercharged so might not be so critical. I'll run a flow simulation on it (it's a handy tool which is part of the CAD package) to check.
I'll also think of a way of getting the $500,000 or so that it will need to build it.....that might take me a little longer. The lottery seems not to be coughing up the results as yet...
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post #6 of 13 Old 10-25-2017, 8:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

and another view
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post #7 of 13 Old 10-25-2017, 11:19 AM
 
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

nice modeling!
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-14-2017, 3:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

now working out how to design the frame around that engine. The geometry you see is more or less Fireblade 929.
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post #9 of 13 Old 11-26-2017, 1:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

a bit closer to the real world...
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-26-2017, 6:05 PM
 
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

I hate to discourage sharing of knowledge but you might consider filing a patent before posting more design work.

-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-27-2017, 5:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

thanks for your concern. I have some experience with patents, and all that goes with it. Long story short, you need an army of lawyers to enforce a patent (and paying for it is not small change) . Fine if your name is General Motors or toyota, but little guys have no chance. However, if someone else patents something that's your idea and you can prove it, then you can claim against them on the basis of "prior art" - but that only counts in the US. Such a posting as you see above would count as prior art....
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-27-2017, 10:10 AM
 
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

You may wish to have a gander at the Terms of Use section of Fireblades.org including the section on Intellectual use.

*Note: I'm not a barrister nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
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-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-27-2017, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: two strokes ain't dead....yet

Thats very interesting. Very. Thanks for the heads-up.
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