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post #1 of 11 Old 05-15-2004, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Broke my car...

As a follow-up to the thread about my new (to me) Integra "beater car"
(old thread HERE)...

It kinda broke...accompanied by a big puff of whitish smoke; fortunately I was close to home and was able to coast nearly all the way to the driveway with the ignition off.

Fortunately for me, my buddy Mike (who sold me the car) is insistent on seeing the repair through to the end, and covering the cost. He also enlisted his brother to help with the investigation and the certain subsequent wrenching. On Thursday night we tested the compression. Cylinder 4 was completely dead, and #1 only had 60 pounds. So, two hours later (after extracting the radiator, head, turbo, etc.) we pulled piston number four and it looked like this:



We theorize that the rings (which are original with 135K miles) failed under the additional abuse served up by the turbo. The cylinder wall was scored a little, and could probably be honed, but I think it's a good opportunity for an upgrade.

Sooooo.....the game plan is to have the block be redone with AEBS sleeves (see pic)

bore it 2mm, and install new JE pistons/rings and Eagle rods. I thought that 84mm (bore) would be a good number, as it would take the GS-R from 1.8 to an even two liters, but the guy at the shop we're sending the block to recommends 83's, as they'll allow for up to three more rebuilds - and because (in his words) that extra 1mm doesn't gain you much at 'street car' boost levels.

I think I'll leave the crank alone. The head will get milled, but I'm still undecided on doing any porting/polishing; it depends on who we find to do the work, and what it'll cost - and gain me. In the end, we'll likely crank up the boost a little, from 9 pounds to something around 12 - our goal is 300hp at the wheels (it was making 250 with 9 pounds).

While the engine is out we'll also install a 5th gear from an Integra LS, to get rpms down at highway speeds, and to improve mileage (currently 30mpg). Regular just cracked the $2 mark here this morning for the first time in years...

Fortunately this is just my "drive to work" car, because it's going to be out of commission for a couple more weeks. I'll post pics and updates as the work progresses.
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-15-2004, 11:45 PM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

Looks like your motor definitely had a pretty good "seizure". Good luck w/the rebuild...
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-16-2004, 2:08 AM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

I thought your buddy was ripping the turbo out of your car? Did you end up buying that from him as well?

Do you really need a 300+ hp as a daily drive? Sheesh.

Be fast or be last.
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post #4 of 11 Old 05-16-2004, 10:51 AM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

Quote:
Originally Posted by asiliat
I thought your buddy was ripping the turbo out of your car? Did you end up buying that from him as well?

Do you really need a 300+ hp as a daily drive? Sheesh.
anybody that asks THAT question, obviously doesn't have one
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-16-2004, 11:00 AM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

My daily driver has 300hp. (Not at the wheels though.)
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-16-2004, 1:39 PM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

Replace it with an R1, it'll never seize and comes stock with over 300hp...

Jordan H.
The three most feared words in racing, "Powered by Honda".
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-16-2004, 9:24 PM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

What compression ratio are you going with? 8:1, 8.5:1, 9:1

Why are you milling the head? Higher compression is not what you want.

Are you going to pin the block? As you can see the entire water jacket surrounds the cylinder walls with no support for the walls. They flex like hell under boost. Pinning will add stability.

Porting and polishing should be done if you have the money.

If you can you should put a complete LS transmission in. Much better for turbo cars.
Look into getting a Limited slip differential. They are very easy to install. Put power thru both wheels.

One of the most important things to buy would be new injectors. 310cc should be ok.

Do you have a V-tec controller of some kind? They usually have the capability of controlling the fuel map like a power commander for a bike.

I have put holes thru a few pistons trying to learn how to turbo a Honda. I have not touched a Honda in 4 years but still remember some things. All the work I did was back when I lived in Hawaii.
I built 1 turbo car (11 second daily driven, girlfriends car) and 2 all motor Honda’s. All were Honda civics with a b18c or b16a motor transplant.

If you have any questions email me as I don’t check this board all the time.

Good luck and have fun.
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-17-2004, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Broke my car...

Fireblade RR's comments in bold, responses in regular text...

I don't know the answers to all these questions (good thing I have some help), but I appreciate the thoughts and advice! Here's what I do know:

What compression ratio are you going with? 8:1, 8.5:1, 9:1
I'm not positive, although I think it was running 8.5:1

Why are you milling the head? Higher compression is not what you want.
I realize this; the head will be inspected for warping, because the GS-R block and head are aluminum, and the car overheated (twice!) since I got it, due to fan connectors gone bad.

Are you going to pin the block? As you can see the entire water jacket surrounds the cylinder walls with no support for the walls. They flex like hell under boost. Pinning will add stability.
The shop that we're planning to have do the sleeving is Z10 Engineering in NJ; they use the AEBS sleeves, which (I believe) provide that support you spoke of. See the pic in the first post. The sleeves increase the surface area for the head gasket and provide support for the cylinder walls. Coolant can still flow around the outside of the cylinder walls; the sleeves just address the weakness in the open deck design at the top and bottom of the cylinders. The AEBS sleeves can withstand 55 pounds of boost. I do not expect my tranny or LSD could, though!

Porting and polishing should be done if you have the money.
The sleeving, pistons, rods, head work and other stuff (preventative maintenance items like water pump, oil pump, timing belt, etc.) are already running me just over $2500, so I'll have to see. I realize that it would be optimal, but then again, the car was already making plenty of power. Is it really necessary? Will it provide any advantages in terms of fuel efficiency or something else I should consider?

If you can you should put a complete LS transmission in. Much better for turbo cars.
Interesting. The GS-R tranny certainly is geared short! I'll shop around.

Look into getting a Limited slip differential. They are very easy to install. Put power thru both wheels.
As I mentioned above, the car already has one, although it's a Honda unit. A Quaife would be sweet, but that might have to wait a while.

One of the most important things to buy would be new injectors. 310cc should be ok.
Well, er...it already has 550's in it. I'm concerned that this is the reason the car was running on the rich side (read on). I have the option of swapping the injectors (for 310's) with a friend, who seems eager to make that trade.

Do you have a V-tec controller of some kind? They usually have the capability of controlling the fuel map like a power commander for a bike.
The car has both a boost controller and a Hondata system. Thing is, the previous owner and another pal had done the tuning, and I'm fairly certain there were areas that could have been improved upon. For instance, at idle, the car would spit carbon onto the garage floor or driveway; the exhaust tip is all blackened with soot. My guess is that the tuning was fine at both partial/cruising and full throttle, but could have been better at idle.

Questions for you:
- Do you think 310 injectors would be better for my application? Are the 550's too tough to modulate (or do they just flow too much fuel)? I will likely not ever exceed 15 pounds of boost or 300 hp at the wheels. It would be cool if the car could run 12's, yet be very streetable and still get 30 mpg. Oh, and it must pass the emissions inspection.
- Can you expound on the reasons I should consider having the head ported and polished?
- Are there any cons to using an LS transmission?

Thanks again for the feedback!
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-17-2004, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Broke my car...

Quote:
Originally Posted by asiliat
I thought your buddy was ripping the turbo out of your car? Did you end up buying that from him as well?
He was going to, but he decided it would be a pain in the butt to pull it out and mess with re-selling it. Plus, he apparently isn't desperate to recoup his investment, and in his words, he'd hate to see all his hard work spent improving the car go to waste, so he offered it all to me for a can't-refuse price. Of course, now that the motor's all apart, maybe pulling the turbo stuff wouldn't have been so bad after all, by comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asiliat
Do you really need a 300+ hp as a daily drive? Sheesh.
No, but it sure is fun! And if it gets 30 mpg (which it currently does, even with the short 5th gear), then I'm that much happier.

You should have seen the look on the face of the Hardly rider leaving the toll plaza a couple weeks ago. First it was a smile (as we started), then surprise (as I snicked it into second and began to pull away), then amazement (after I'd sufficiently proved the point and slowed to let him roll past); I'd left him several lengths behind...he just smiled and shook his head.
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-17-2004, 2:02 PM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba
anybody that asks THAT question, obviously doesn't have one


True enough. Although 208 is enuf in my GTI right now (at least that's what I keep telling myself.)

Be fast or be last.
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-17-2004, 2:08 PM
 
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Re: Broke my car...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ
No, but it sure is fun! And if it gets 30 mpg (which it currently does, even with the short 5th gear), then I'm that much happier.

You should have seen the look on the face of the Hardly rider leaving the toll plaza a couple weeks ago. First it was a smile (as we started), then surprise (as I snicked it into second and began to pull away), then amazement (after I'd sufficiently proved the point and slowed to let him roll past); I'd left him several lengths behind...he just smiled and shook his head.
Ricerboy.

Actually, that sounded pretty fun. Although beating Hardley is hardly much to brag about. ON a good day with my runners....

Be fast or be last.
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