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post #1 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 5:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Blair is getting into deep sh*t over this. Quite possibly going to lose him the next election. End of a glittering career?

And this from a paper generally considered very much left of cente.

Blair and the WMD
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post #2 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 5:46 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

What will be amazing is to watch as the press swings the other way when some sort of evidence is found. Wonder if they will issue an apology or submit their resignations? NOT!
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post #3 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 6:02 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Why would they submit their resignation? They've reported that we have not found WMD and that one of the pretenses for attacking Iraq was incorrect

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post #4 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 6:07 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Guess I wasn't clear, I meant the reporters submitting.
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post #5 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 8:50 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

The British Parliment is a tough crowd. I thought Robin Cook's resignation speech on the eve of war was outstanding. If only our own Congress could apply similar pressure, we might get some answers.
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post #6 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 9:31 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

I'd have thought he may be lucky to make it to another election. There's a whole lot I could say at this stage but won't *- other than that the whole sorry mess of what happened in the run up to the war on both sides of the Atlantic stinks more by the day.
The consequences were much worse and continue to multiply by the day.
I can only hope and pray that even at this late stage that ordinary people will regain their empathy with the rest of humanity and act bring to an end what's being done in their name....



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post #7 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 9:46 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

I can never seem to find that tripe emoticon when I need it.....

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post #8 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 10:44 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Back on the derision trail I see. Hope you enjoy it....
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post #9 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 10:46 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

No derision at all....just don't agree with your views....nothing new....

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post #10 of 40 Old 07-10-2003, 11:13 PM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

So, UK contingent, How do you think Blair will lose it? Is there another Labor politician with the wherewithal to take the leadership from him? Are they so pissed off as to not support him in a vote of confidence or whatever you call it? Do you see the country going to the Conservatives (Tories?) over this issue?

Isn't this a pissing match between Blair and the BBC?

Do tell.
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post #11 of 40 Old 07-11-2003, 6:56 AM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Can't resist an invite like that. I'm no expert but it seems to me that he's got one very big problem - he's lost the trust of a large part of the British public and of his own party.
I believe it was Confucius who reckoned three things were needed to govern - weapons, food and trust, and that trust was the one to hold on to until last as 'without trust we cannot stand'.
He's always been accused of spin doctoring but had always been surrounded by the bubble of New Labour invincibility. This is now well and truly bust - the emperor has been seen to have no clothes.
It will take time barring a show stopping event (e.g. an enquiry finding, unanswerable evidence of gross deceit) and this is unlikely without closure on the WMD situation in Iraq - but the slow downward slide will be very hard to stop. He probably needs a major crisis or something along the lines of a covert and current nuclear programme to be found in Iraq. Not just the remains of some weedkiller in eight year old barrels or rusty bits buried years ago in some boffin's garden.
No WMD, proven use of dodgy evidence to justify a war which many had huge misgivings about, a bad situation in Iraq which is not improving, close association with an (over here at least) deeply unpopular Bush administration, the resignations of a number of senior members from his own party who are now actively campaigning against him, the 'Old Labour' rump in the party now routinely voting against the government in parliament, parliamentary enquiries asking hard questions he's splitting hairs on and not answering properly, being forced to bet all on weapons being found to justify his position, his chief adviser only escaping a parliamentary finding that he hyped the case for war by the casting vote of the committee chairman, unheard of open conflict with the highly respected BBC. (as somebody said 'don't pick a fight with a guy who buys his ink by the gallon&#39 A widely held perception that he screwed up the recent government reshuffle. Hung out to dry by a Bush administration which frantic to justify its own increasingly tattered position rejected the British government's claims that Iraq tried to buy nuclear materials in Niger. All overshadowed by signs the UK economy is heading for a difficult patch and maybe worst of all a changed personal demeanour which has him looking more like a rat in a cage and less like a leader every day.
It's by no means a foregone conclusion. The opposition is weak, the government has a lot of power to influence bodies like the BBC and the parliamentary enquiries, the Labour party will in their own selfish interest be slow to destabilise the situation without an election friendly candidate. Not to mention that with the coming launch of the Labour re-election campaign they'll be committed to going for election with his Blairship in the hot seat in another very short while........
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post #12 of 40 Old 07-11-2003, 8:04 AM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Blair may very well fall victim to short term partisan politics...but in the long term, he will be remembered as a world leader that had the courage to act for the good of others rather than just for his own political future...

Myself, and many other Americans are thankful for his courage...

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post #13 of 40 Old 07-11-2003, 8:31 AM
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Fair enough, Baketech but a touch unfortunate that the other *~ 90% of the World doesn't share the US view.



post #14 of 40 Old 07-11-2003, 8:59 AM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

Quote:
Gary Bloke : Fair enough, Baketech but a touch unfortunate that the other *~ 90% of the World doesn't share the US view.
Do you have some facts/polls/data to substantiate that claim of 90%....or was it just a number you felt would give credence to your opinion......?

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post #15 of 40 Old 07-11-2003, 9:29 AM
 
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Re: Blair slowly sinking

I'm no friend of populist politics and agree he made a courageous (but probably arrogant and excessively self belief fuelled) decision to support the Bush Administration despite the views of many in his own party and country and stood by it, but it looks increasingly like both were flat wrong in that the real, serious and immediate threat required to justify a pre-emptive war seems simply not to have existed - neither the WMD nor the wholesale support for terrorist organisations were there.
Even if evidence is now found it'll clearly have been a lucky break as it's clear they had little or no hard information, and no idea of where to look.
Wrong also in their assessment of their ability to stabilise Iraq after the war - the situation there looks increasingly dangerous in that if the attacks on US and British troops continue to escalate the resulting need for more extreme defensive actions will eliminate any possibility of building a popular Iraqi government and play further into the hands of the fundamentalists who are hovering in the background.
I'd argue that the strategic imperative Blair was driven by may well have been the need to avoid a rift with long time Allies the US (the Bush Administration basically created a 'you're either 100% with us or 100% opposed to us no debate environment for everybody in the run up to the war) rather than any first principles assessment of the total situation.
This unfortunately is not good enough - it's the very top division and being seriously wrong even if your intentions are good is unfortunately not good enough. (this I think apllies very much to Bush as well)
The field is your Bake - instead of popping off at people who post opposing views I'd really love for you to set out a clearly argued position on why such a great job was done on all our behalfs.
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