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post #1 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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SHOCK and AWE

I just dont know what to say http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140378,00.html

surprise

"sorry I'm late, I had to stop by the wax museum and give the finger to FDR again" - Cotton Hill
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post #2 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 10:32 AM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Well he wasn't on any of that crap this year, and look what he did
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post #3 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

yeah - no HR records set, more strikeouts, more walks.

"sorry I'm late, I had to stop by the wax museum and give the finger to FDR again" - Cotton Hill
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post #4 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 10:44 AM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba
yeah - no HR records set, more strikeouts, more walks.
He had an amazing season this year.
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post #5 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 11:05 AM
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Bonds, the San Francisco Giants slugger, testified last year that Greg Anderson (search), his personal trainer, told him that the substances he used in 2003 were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by the San Francisco Chronicle.

Yeah, ok. He gains 25lbs of muscle and thinks he's using flaxseed oil and Ben Gay. According to him, his trainer was secretly giving him steroids and lying about it.

Hey, he's one of the best ball players ever, but he's still lying about what he did and didn't do. Steroids won't improve the hand/eye coordination a hitter needs to consistently hit a 95mph fastball, but it will increase batspeed and power - two things that can make a hitter like Barry so hard to jam inside.

Last edited by ER; 12-03-2004 at 11:06 AM.
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post #6 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 11:08 AM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

you know what makes me sick about this whole steroid witch-hunt? the fact that strength is only one of three components of hitting home runs....hand/eye coordination and bat speed(and more specifically pitch location) are just as important as pure strength....now, granted, he should of been more cognizant of the things people(more specifically his trainer) gave him, but that doesn't change the fact that he's the best hitter in the game right now(you could make an argument for Pujols or Rolen but that argument goes down the toilet after this past year's World Series )..... The fact is the Bonds only gets half the swings on a Beltre, Vlad Guerrero, Ichiro, etc, etc. and he still led the majors in OPS(on base percentage) and Slugging...and he still batted .362 with 45 homers with 101RBIS...and all of this with 232 walks!!!!! so, yes, he was wrong for "unknowingly" using steroids, but let's not try to diminish his skills and his abilities....

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post #7 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

i am just bitter about him, since i am a pirates fan. you figure out why

"sorry I'm late, I had to stop by the wax museum and give the finger to FDR again" - Cotton Hill
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 12:48 PM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikMike
you know what makes me sick about this whole steroid witch-hunt? the fact that strength is only one of three components of hitting home runs....hand/eye coordination and bat speed(and more specifically pitch location) are just as important as pure strength....now, granted, he should of been more cognizant of the things people(more specifically his trainer) gave him, but that doesn't change the fact that he's the best hitter in the game right now(you could make an argument for Pujols or Rolen but that argument goes down the toilet after this past year's World Series )..... The fact is the Bonds only gets half the swings on a Beltre, Vlad Guerrero, Ichiro, etc, etc. and he still led the majors in OPS(on base percentage) and Slugging...and he still batted .362 with 45 homers with 101RBIS...and all of this with 232 walks!!!!! so, yes, he was wrong for "unknowingly" using steroids, but let's not try to diminish his skills and his abilities....
I somewhat disagree. Put his early MLB year photos against what he looks like today. I'm pretty sure he knew he was taking steroids. His trainer specifically used the 'clear' type (on Giambi) because it was undetectable along with masking drugs for the others during urinalysis (sp?). Take him off the roids and is Bonds really the best hitter of all time? Would he really rack up all those home runs? Hand/eye coordination is a big factor, but so is flicking your wrist and sending the ball into earth's orbit. Same with McGuire, Giambi, etc.

Put the asterik next to ALL their records. Why do nearly all sport organizations screen for enhancement drugs? Because it gives an unfair advantage against the natural athlete, period.
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 12:57 PM
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

I'm not sure how to take steroid use in professional sports. If you look at football, I'd like to think that most players in the league today have used them at one time in their career. So while they might not be using them now, they're most likely benefiting from the increase in speed and strength they gained when they used them in college and/or high-school.

I don't have any statistics to back up those thoughts, other than what a former workout partner of mine told me, which was that his entire team was on the sauce when he played linebacker in college. Yes, even the kicker and punter. My guess is that trend carries over into the other sports to a lesser degree.
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 12:59 PM
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Hand/eye coordination is a big factor, but so is flicking your wrist and sending the ball into earth's orbit. Same with McGuire, Giambi, etc.
As a loyal Cardinals fan, I've been saying for years that I thought McGwire was on the sauce when he came to St. Louis. I believe he had Andro in his locker to give him an out if he was ever accused of using, since Andro will test positive in the same way steroids will.
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 1:06 PM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Quote:
Originally Posted by ER
I'm not sure how to take steroid use in professional sports. If you look at football, I'd like to think that most players in the league today have used them at one time in their career. So while they might not be using them now, they're most likely benefiting from the increase in speed and strength they gained when they used them in college and/or high-school.

I don't have any statistics to back up those thoughts, other than what a former workout partner of mine told me, which was that his entire team was on the sauce when he played linebacker in college. Yes, even the kicker and punter. My guess is that trend carries over into the other sports to a lesser degree.
I agree with your discussion. I honestly think that these guys are millionaires and get access to the best chit around, that won't hurt their health in the long run. Take that stuff away, and they'll still get the best protein, creatine, etc, etc, etc. Androstack, and all that type of ****. I don't agree with what they did, but I'm not going to discredit them because of it. Barry is the best player in baseball and one of the best of all time.

You see these guys bigger today than 10-15 years ago, because weight lifting is such a big deal now, and we also know so much more about taking protein, and sports nutrition has gone leaps and bounds since 1990.
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 1:43 PM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Apparently there are symptoms of long term use such as extended foreheads, yellowing of eyes, etc. Isn't MacGuire basically hiding out of sight because he drastic weight loss problem? To say it's basically harmless, I don't know. The human body has to eventually react to foreign hormones and chemicals whether through kidney or liver problems or whatever.

Let's say a great athlete's all time best long jump is 22 feet. After working harder and pumping his body full of roids, he then sets a new long jump record of 29 feet (I have no idea of long jump distances). Yes, he worked out incredibly hard, dieted, and everything else. But does he deserve to be the all time record holder if found that he used steroids versus the rest of his non-drugged competition (even former record holders)?

To me it's black and white. They are called illegal "enhancement" drugs for a reason.

Like ER, I knew this guy who was big boned but not very cut. He went on the roids and got huge. He was freaking hyper all the time and spent everyday lifting weights and competed everyone on everything. To say he was moody was an understatement. He even told me he was scared of some weird symptoms affecting his private parts. He eventually became a SC State Highway Patrolman.
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 3:05 PM
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDave
Apparently there are symptoms of long term use such as extended foreheads, yellowing of eyes, etc. Isn't MacGuire basically hiding out of sight because he drastic weight loss problem? To say it's basically harmless, I don't know. The human body has to eventually react to foreign hormones and chemicals whether through kidney or liver problems or whatever.

Let's say a great athlete's all time best long jump is 22 feet. After working harder and pumping his body full of roids, he then sets a new long jump record of 29 feet (I have no idea of long jump distances). Yes, he worked out incredibly hard, dieted, and everything else. But does he deserve to be the all time record holder if found that he used steroids versus the rest of his non-drugged competition (even former record holders)?

To me it's black and white. They are called illegal "enhancement" drugs for a reason.

Like ER, I knew this guy who was big boned but not very cut. He went on the roids and got huge. He was freaking hyper all the time and spent everyday lifting weights and competed everyone on everything. To say he was moody was an understatement. He even told me he was scared of some weird symptoms affecting his private parts. He eventually became a SC State Highway Patrolman.
Well, many lifters can cycle on and off the sauce and keep most of what they gain. Since they're naturally a much smaller person than they've developed themselves to be, they will eventually start losing muscle-mass when they stop giving their bodies a reason to keep it. That's probably the case with McGwire - he stopped lifting or cut back dramatically since he doesn't need to be as strong and his body started trimming off un-needed muscle. Any weight-lifter will tell you how easy it is to lose in one month what took them six months to gain.
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 9:26 PM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikMike
and he still led the majors in OPS(on base percentage) and Slugging...and he still batted .362 with 45 homers with 101RBIS...and all of this with 232 walks!!!!!
you contradicted yourself right there. batting .362 with 232 walks is gonna equal a huge on base percentage. the walks figure into it. the other numbers are whats amazing in the number of at bats he had.

edit: oh yeah and that stuff about Pujols and Rolen being awesome except for the stuff in the WS. you gotta give the sox a lot of credit for that, the pitching was awesome and the Sox bats never let up. Of the amount of pitches Sox batter swung at in the series they missed the ball 37 times. We didn't give you guys much of a chance to get at bats. I do think Pujols is one of the best players in baseball, I've liked him since he rookie year before most people knew who he was.

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Last edited by CBR929RE; 12-03-2004 at 9:39 PM.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-03-2004, 9:32 PM
 
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Re: SHOCK and AWE

They're all on drugs, even when they say they're not. Can't set records without them anymore.

Bikes and women - both have nice curves.
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