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post #1 of 44 Old 12-22-2004, 1:23 PM Thread Starter
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Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Damn. Broken fibula, not just a sprained ankle. Surgery immediately. Will miss the last two regular season games, as well as the divisional playoff and NFC Championship game. Best-case scenario is that he can begin running five weeks from now...that's just one week before the Super Bowl.

I have no reason to doubt that the Eagles will still be playing in the Super Bowl; even without TO, they are still head and shoulders above anyone else in the surprisingly crappy NFC. It would take a pretty poor game or more injuries (as if they haven't had enough this year) for the Birds to lose in the playoffs.

However....
the Eagles would need a healthy TO - AND the game of their lives - to beat New England or Pittsburgh (Indy won't make it).

If Philly phalls short...again, I'll be pulling for the AFC team, although who wants to see the [yawn] Patriots win...again?

I'm not expecting sympathy - just voicing the sadness of Philly fans everywhere.

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post #2 of 44 Old 12-22-2004, 1:40 PM
 
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ
I have no reason to doubt that the Eagles will still be playing in the Super Bowl; even without TO
Ur kidding, right? They went from being able to rely on the best receiver in the league to HAVING to rely on the WORST receiver in the league. Since their opponent won't need to double-cover TO, they can take the extra defenseman and have him spy McNabb. Hell, they can just let Stinkston go cuz he's afraid to catch a pass so there's another spare defenseman to spy on the running back fulltime. If they get behind in a game and have to pass, they're DONE! 1st round exit for the Birds!

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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

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Originally Posted by JAMI6989
Ur kidding, right? They went from being able to rely on the best receiver in the league to HAVING to rely on the WORST receiver in the league. Since their opponent won't need to double-cover TO, they can take the extra defenseman and have him spy McNabb. Hell, they can just let Stinkston go cuz he's afraid to catch a pass so there's another spare defenseman to spy on the running back fulltime. If they get behind in a game and have to pass, they're DONE! 1st round exit for the Birds!

agreed! Without T.O, they become a fairly average team real quick. I am not convinced they'll beat ATL or Minny....although both of those games would be in Philly in the cold.....too many injuries on defense, not enough weapons(outside of Westbrook) on offense....the only chance they have is if McNabb suddenly morphs into the McNabb of 2001(running, passing)...otherwise, they have a "tall hill to climb"...sorry Taz....maybe next year....

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post #4 of 44 Old 12-22-2004, 5:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Well, I respectfully disagree with both of you...

Pinkston: He's not a top-shelf receiver, no. But he's far from the worst. Few receivers in the league (about four or five) have more 40-yard-plus plays than he does. And he's fast. Does he flinch in the face of a fast and hard-hitting d-back? Well, I would hope he would. Because he weighs about 180 pounds. And the Eagles can't very well afford to lose him any more than they could TO - especially now. A 20-yard gain is nice, sure...but losing your deep threat would just suck. Pinkston will get quick outs and balls thrown deep down the sidelines, and he'll be fine - and the Eagles will score.

The other Eagles receivers have to step up, but for third, fourth and fifth on the depth charts, there are some good guys. Freddie Mitchell has been bitching all year about being number three, and now he'll get a chance to put his hands where his mouth usually is. Greg Lewis is tough, and has a knack for getting open. And Billy McMullen is big like Owens; he's just young and needs to learn (and wait 'til his number is called).

Look at it this way - last year in the NFC Championship game, the Eagles wideouts had TWO catches. In the game, I mean. They will have several times that many this year, and I'll remind you I said that when they do.

NFC competition? LOL! Atlanta is an apparition. Michael Vick...how should I say this gently?...well, he ain't a very good quarterback. He can run a little, but he's anything BUT a good passer. Vick is like Allen Iverson - fun to watch him play, but he isn't going to win any games for you all by himself. Atlanta beat Arizona this year - but only 6 to 3! They lost to the stinkin' LIONS. They got pounded by the Chiefs. They got crushed (and shut out) by Tampa. Beating the Eagles might be on their Chrismas list, but Santa ain't bringing that gift, you know what I'm saying?

Minnesota is a slightly different story. Then again, (among other losses) they have losses to the Giants, the Bears, and the Seahawks, who are a combined 17 and 25. But the Vikings and Carolina are the only two NFC teams I'd put within 7 points of the Eagles in a playoff game.

The fact is, the Eagles have thrown in some stinkers this year, and they've STILL won every game they were supposed to, and then some. They just don't lose to lesser teams.

Look for some interesting stuff from the Eagles in the playoffs. Watch for Westbrook split out as a receiver in 3 and 4 receiver sets. Who's going to cover him? A linebacker? A defensive lineman? We've seen what happens in those cases. Look for Dorsey Levens to run more and for Westbrook to run a lot of screens and crossing routes. Now that McNabb doesn't have that "TO temptation", watch for Chad Lewis and L.J. Smith to get a lot more looks. And don't discount the other receivers. While they're not going to fully compensate for the loss of TO, the Eagles are STILL better off going into the playoffs this year than they were last. And the weak NFC isn't likely to have enough this time around to get it done.

All that said, I still don't think Philly could beat Pittsburgh or the Pats in the SB.
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post #5 of 44 Old 12-22-2004, 6:35 PM
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ
NFC competition? LOL! Atlanta is an apparition. Michael Vick...how should I say this gently?...well, he ain't a very good quarterback. He can run a little, but he's anything BUT a good passer. Vick is like Allen Iverson - fun to watch him play, but he isn't going to win any games for you all by himself. Atlanta beat Arizona this year - but only 6 to 3! They lost to the stinkin' LIONS. They got pounded by the Chiefs. They got crushed (and shut out) by Tampa. Beating the Eagles might be on their Chrismas list, but Santa ain't bringing that gift, you know what I'm saying?

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post #6 of 44 Old 12-22-2004, 7:59 PM
 
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Taz, ur one funny guy. Please step away from the pipe and proceed directly to rehab!

Yeah, that Micheal Vick guy is SOOOOOOOOOOOO overrated. He singlehandedly won a couple games and last weeks 4th down run surely wasn't a fluke, or was it luck? Regardless, it wasn't skill, that's for sure.

As for Stinkston, I don't think I'm alone when I say he's HORRIBLE. I've never seen anyone take the beating he has on ALL the NFL shows. Everyone was blasting this guy and some went to far as to say that he wasn't even a man. LOL He's literally AFRAID to catch a ball or take a hit. After all, isn't that what he's PAID to do? I don't care whether he likes it or not, but it's his ******* JOB and he's afraid to do it. He's larger than Harrison but you'd NEVER see Harrison alligator-arm a pass like Stinkston. Or several catchable passes for that matter. If I was a quarterback, I wouldn't even bother looking his way cuz it's a waste of time.

Anyway, Philly squeaked by that powerhouse Dallas last week but the road will only get tougher. I don't think they'll be playing many teams w/ weak cornerbacks so neutralizing a mediocre (at best) receiver corps won't really be a problem. Just have one guy spy McNabb and key on the run and the game is pretty much over.

I see Green Bay getting revenge for that beating they took when TO was playing against them.

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post #7 of 44 Old 12-22-2004, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMI6989
...Just have one guy spy McNabb and key on the run and the game is pretty much over.

I see Green Bay getting revenge for that beating they took when TO was playing against them.
Where was TO last January, when Green Bay came to Philly? Hint: he wasn't playing for the Eagles, and despite having a much weaker team (both offensively and defensively) than this year, Philly still managed to send them home crying. As far as the beating they took in THIS year's regular season game, that was the one in which the mighty Farve had his streak (consecutive games with a TD) broken. They had nothing for the Philly defense. Green Bay was its own worst enemy. And it wasn't all TO's doing; you subtract his one TD and 161 yards, and Philly still has 50% more passing yards, and still wins by 23 points.

Okay, coach, let's talk about your defensive planning: I welcome your spy, and PLEASE "key on the run". Then watch the master of dink-n-dunk tear up your hapless defense. Philly's isn't an offense built around one guy (and if it WAS, it wouldn't be the receiver, it would be guy in the number 5 jersey). While you've got that DB "spying" McNabb and looking for the run, he'll just roll out of the pocket and lob a short one to Westbrook or L.J. - who are you putting on Westbrook while you've got that spy standing around watching McNabb? You go with that plan, and the Eagles will make your defensive scheme look like something drawn in the dirt at the schoolyard.

Oh - coach....I forgot to warn you that once you start looking for the screens and the short stuff, McNabb will be hitting that "horrible" Pinkston for 18.8 yards per catch. Yeah - I like Marvin Harrison. But you're going to compare one of the most prolific receivers in the game (and a guy who has one of the game's best QB's tossing to him) to the Eagles' second guy? Yeah, I guess I MIGHT consider having Harrison instead. So I looked it up. And on the other hand, Harrison has 12.9 yards per catch, versus Pinkston's 18.8. Harrison's longest play of the year was good for 59 yards, and he has three plays over 40 yards. Meanwhile, "Stinkston" has a long play of 80 yards, and SIX plays of 40 yards or more. And Pinkston is a wimp, but he's a speedy one. Sure, I like Harrison. But I don't think he's an option to play for Philly this January. As you may not recall, Pinkston came up huge in the divisional game versus Green Bay last year (another one where they came to Philly looking for "revenge") - and he'll do it again this year. He's hot and cold...and I'm betting that after the past two weeks (in which he embarrassed himself and the team), he's going to get hot again.

Finally, about Vick: I guess I shouldn't tear him down too much. He is the best thing going for the Falcons. But he can't touch McNabb - the only stat he's got over McNabb this year is rushing. He's got 117 runs for 7.6 yards per, versus McNabb's 41 for 5.6 per. Maybe he has to run because he has no one to throw to.



P.S. I don't suppose you'd like to reveal which team you're lucky enough to be a fan of?

Last edited by TAZ; 12-22-2004 at 11:06 PM.
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post #8 of 44 Old 01-18-2005, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Okay.

Time to step up and make your predictions. So far, you've been wrong about how the Eagles would falter without T.O. You were wrong that they'd have a first-round playoff exit. And you're wrong about Michael Vick. Sure, he's an offensive threat, but but it's like the Falcons are direct-snapping to a running back. Vick is in the bottom half of QB's in the league - mediocre at best - when it comes to passing. Tell me he's a good athlete, or a good running back, and I'll buy it. But tell me he's a good QB, and you have some convincing to do.

So much for Philly's first-round exit because of the "no T.O." factor. They handled the Vikings on both offense and defense, and easily covered the nine point spread.

So, fellas...this is your chance to redeem yourselves!
What say you about the Falcons' chances on Sunday?

Before you answer, remember that game against Tampa - the one in which Vick was sacked 5 times, threw 2 picks and lost 2 fumbles. The Falcons got dismantled, 27-0. Now take a look at Sunday's weather report...a far cry from Tampa!

Cloudy/Snow Shower
High 31F
Low 19F
Chance of precipitation: 50%
Wind: NE 9 mph

Some stats:
Including the last two games of the season, which Philly "took off" (I think Atlanta may have rested starters for a game as well???)...

- Atlanta rushes for 167 yards per game, and passes for 168 for a total of 335.
- Philly rushes for 102 yards per game, and passes for 263 for a total of 365.
- Atlanta's defense allows 325 yards and 21 points per game.
- Philly's defense allows 319 yards and 16 points per game.

- Atlanta is 30th in the NFL in passing. Philly is sixth.
- Vick's QB rating ranks him 21st in the league. McNabb is fourth.
- Vick completed 181 passes for 2313 yards and 14 TD's this year.
- Meanwhile, McNabb completed 300 passes for 3875 and 31 TD's (that's more than twice as many TD's, for those keeping count)
- Vick (obviously) ranks last among the four remaining playoff QB's, while McNabb is first (McNabb, Roethlisberger, Brady...and a good bit further down the list you'll find Vick)

On the defensive side of the ball, the Falcons are good, but still trail in defensive stats. Atlanta's run defense is slightly better, while their passing defense is worse. A good run defense is not exactly what you need against Philly, which just doesn't run the ball; only lowly Oakland had fewer rushes this year, probably because the Raiders aren't on offense that much.

On the other hand, Atlanta has a fantastic running game. Or perhaps more accurately, they simply run more - a LOT more. I'd argue that it's because Vick isn't a very good passer. But to their great credit, Atlanta is first in the NFL in rushing yards, thanks largely to Vick, who has more rushing yards than HALF the running backs in the league(!) - including Ducket and Brian Westbrook (although Westbrook didn't play in three games). Of course, Philly passes first and runs third.


Ah, well. Stats only mean so much. If stats were the whole story, they wouldn't need to play the games, right? Of course, there are intangibles that may make the difference in this game. The weather; the outdoors versus the comfort and turf of the Georgia Dome. The rabid Philly fans. And the hunger of a team that will not accept a fourth consecutive NFC Championship game loss. If this game were in Atlanta, I'd say it'd be dead even...but it's not.


Actually, I give the Falcons a lot of credit. This should be a good game, and it may even be close. The Falcons have a great defense; Vick is difficult to contain; Duckett and Dunn are a lethal combination; and they've proven they're a contender. But they're a dome team playing in the nastiness of Philly in late January, and they're facing a team that's better on both sides of the ball, T.O. or not. Atlanta is good, no doubt - but I think they're not good enough to keep Philly out of the big show.

Your well-thought-out responses appreciated...

Last edited by TAZ; 01-18-2005 at 11:41 AM.
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

well Taz....I will agree with you that stats only mean so much....I'll step up and be a man and eat my crow, but don't get too high on yourself just yet...That Minny team that showed up on Sunday wasn't the same team in Lambeau field the previous week...not trying to make excuses or anything('cause Philly's defense had something to do with it), but I think Philly's blitzing scheme could haunt them with Mike Vick...if he escapes and break a tackle or two, it could cause some problems...But for ATL to have a chance in this game, Vick has to make some plays in the passing game...no question about it...he's gonna make some plays in the run game b/c the guy is Jordan on a football field, but he's gonna have to find Crumpler and Price and Finneran and etc.....If I were a betting man, I'd probably pick Philly for the simple fact that they're at home and the pressure of four straights NFC championship losses will be too great....but that's a very weak pick right now...If ATL can effectively run the ball(which Minny did on occasion) and Vick can make some plays in the passing game, we could have a good game on our hands....neither one of these teams though is gonna beat PIT or NE....although I'd love to see a PIT vs. PHI SB game....talk about a blood feud...!!!!

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post #10 of 44 Old 01-18-2005, 12:12 PM
 
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Damn, you did your homework. Your stats prove that Philly is will win hands down. They should not even bother to play the game......

Reality check, anything can happen. Philly has choked more than once during a playoff game, i.e - Tampa Bay. Stats showed that Philly would beat the hell out of Tampa. It did not happen that way did it. Stats showed that Oakland was going to win that year. That did not happen either. I could really care less who wins. I am a Tampa fan BTW. They sucked ass all year long. But, they did win a superbowl.

All in all, I am just glad that we still have football to watch. I get upset at the end of the season when it is all over.

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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

I find it absolutely hilarious that an Eagles fan would talk smack about passing capabilities. So McNabb had a decent season for once. BFD. Take a look at his stats for every other year. He sucks as a passer, and there is only one reason he had a decent season. In fact, in his best season ever (thanks to poor NFC defenses and a single reciever) he still isn't one of the league's best.
If the Vikings even knew what defense was, Philly would be looking forward to next year's playoff defeat already.
As soon as they meet a good defense, it will be business as usual for McNabb.
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post #12 of 44 Old 01-18-2005, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

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In fact, in his best season ever (thanks to poor NFC defenses and a single reciever) he still isn't one of the league's best.
LOL!
No, I guess fourth best in the league (ahead of Big Ben and Brady, among others) doesn't make him one of the best...?
Gimme a break.

McNabb has had middle-of-the-road passing numbers in the past because his targets were the likes of Todd Pinkston and James Thrash. This year he's fourth best with just one good receiver. I like to think that if #5 had Manning's targets or the Steelers receivers, for example, his numbers would top the league. But as it is, he has just one outstanding wideout, and he's a lowly FOURTH.


I agree that neither NFC team is likely to beat either AFC team. The Steelers and the Patriots are a notch or two above the Colts and the Eagles, and everyone else is at least a notch below that. Still, as a Philly fan who last saw his team in the Super Bowl in 1981(!), a mere SB appearance is long overdue and would be welcomed, even with a loss at the end of the day.
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ
even with a loss at the end of the day.
I disagree. Ask Buffalo fans. Four losses and no win.
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAZ
LOL!
No, I guess fourth best in the league (ahead of Big Ben and Brady, among others) doesn't make him one of the best...?
Gimme a break.

McNabb has had middle-of-the-road passing numbers in the past because his targets were the likes of Todd Pinkston and James Thrash. This year he's fourth best with just one good receiver. I like to think that if #5 had Manning's targets or the Steelers receivers, for example, his numbers would top the league. But as it is, he has just one outstanding wideout, and he's a lowly FOURTH.


I agree that neither NFC team is likely to beat either AFC team. The Steelers and the Patriots are a notch or two above the Colts and the Eagles, and everyone else is at least a notch below that. Still, as a Philly fan who last saw his team in the Super Bowl in 1981(!), a mere SB appearance is long overdue and would be welcomed, even with a loss at the end of the day.
By your (moronic) logic, give Roth, Brady or even Vick at least one stellar target and watch them catapult past the single most over-hyped and over-rated QB in the league. His best asset is his scrambling/running, and even then he isn't on par with the league's best.
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Re: Poor TO. Poor Eagles fans.

TAZ,
First of all, CONGRATS on your team's playoff win. It was very decisive against a 2nd rate team who had to beg to get into the playoffs. Admittedly, I thought your team was going to lose and I was indeed very wrong but keep things in perspective. Your trophy case is BARE, and until there's a SB trophy in it, the season will be a BUST!

Prediction: Atlanta in a blowout! (NO, I don't think this will actually happen, but it would be nice )

Congrats again!

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