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post #1 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 1:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

2 6 1/2' mids sounds like 2 12' subs

Its the boxes that make it work like that. I know alot of you are brillant so anyone have any idea what is inside that box?

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post #2 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 2:34 AM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

I know zip about 'systems' but it appears to be the chambered box they built. There is alot of acoustical engineering that go into proper systems, something that is NOT done on your average rice burner/minitruck/lowered civic
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post #3 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 2:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

I figured it was something along the lines of chambers or boses wave radios principals.

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post #4 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 3:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

did some quick research and I think its a Transmission line box. neat things but are stupid hard to build.

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post #5 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 11:09 AM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

I didn't look at the vid, but Stegen, you may be right about a Transmission Line Enclosure. They are mostly used in Large area's like clubs where there is just too much air to move to build pressure. I've seen them built into Stages as well. (2) 32' Woofers in 50 cu ft of enclosure moves serious air. It's really not very impressive though. You will wind up using as much air space, (enclosure volume) as if you put (2) 10' or a 15' sub in your car. You can get roughly the same output, but completely different sound. Since you're using a series of chambers to increase the sound pressure, (the vent acts as an additional woofer, moving a large volume of air) you make sacrifices. In a car, where waves are too long and the woofers are so close to you that there are other things equally as important as pressure. Group Delay, is a measurement of time that gives you an idea of the accuracy of a subwoofer system. With the vent building pressure from the back wave of the cone movement, there is a considerable delay before the development of the note. The speaker moves forward and vibrates air, as the speaker moves back it forces the air in the vent (port) to leave the enclosure. Tuning the vent creates a lower note than what the cone created, giving more output. However; the increased low frequency energy is delayed from and is not in phase with the original signal.

Also don't forget that (2) 6 1/2' speakers are almost a 10' in surface area. About 12 years ago I built a Mazda Navaho with (12) 6 1/2' speakers that were being dicsontinued. The truck did around 146 Db. I don't remember the exact number, but is was lounder than the 27' woofer that was in that truck previously. I still say the best thing for most cars is a Sealed subwoofer system. Use Ported is you want more output and if you can pull it off, Free air gives the best of all worlds with improved accuracy.

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post #6 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 11:22 AM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Yep those boxes are pretty big. Still funny to watch people's faces in the vid.

I've heard people rave about free-airs before, i've just never seen anyone make them work like a sealed box.



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post #7 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 11:37 AM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Man, it's all in how the box is built. Air space is everything. I custom built my box for the correct amount of airspace for my subs. It bumps about as loud as most vehicles that are running 300-500 watts depending on how the box is built. However, I'm only running 120 watts. When I tell people this after they have heard my truck, they're pretty impressed. But man, those enclosures that those guys built were really impressive. I would love to open one of them up to see how it was done.

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post #8 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 11:42 AM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Free air if done right is better than a sealed box. You get more low end extension than a sealed box, more like a ported enclosure. The reponse curve is more linear. You just need more power. If you were into car audio during the Aperiodic Craze, You were just damping the sub to give the appearance of free air on lower notes with the sealed box 'punch' You sacrificed efficiency and needed lots of power. For the real audiophile sound systems we do, most of the bass frequencies are in the front of the car. We did a 560SEC a few years ago that has 8' woofers in .75 cu ft enclosures in the footwells. The enclosures use all available space in the wheel well and extend below the car next to the frame. The 8's played down to 42Hz @ 3DB and I let them roll naturally with no xover. The subs were @ 28Hz with a 24DB slope to fill in what the 8's couldn't do. I run 6.5' in my doors from 50-80Hz and have (2) Free air 12's playing 31.5Hz down @ 36DB. I only have 2 subs to get enough pressure for competition. I amaze people all the time letting them listen with the subs off because all of the fundamentals are present in the front stage.
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 12:00 PM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Who was that, Richard Clark, that had that bad ass Regal with aperiodics?

Anywhoo, Bill, I wish you lived closer to you, I have never met a guy that knows so much about car audio systems, and I've known lots of shop owners...



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post #10 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 12:11 PM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Yes, it was Richard Clark, but that car was purchased from Speaker Works by him after it was an IASCA Finals winner. It was incredible. Richard did make sonic improvements, and helped the Holdaway's design the original system. Ellen Smith, wife of Manville Smith from JL Audio, did the tuning of the car with Richard before she married Manville. That was the 1st car to really push the limits of install and maintain a 'stealth' appearance. Richard still has it along with something like 20 other GN/GNX's in a barn in NC. I beleive Speaker Works is in Orange, Ca and they are some very knowledgeable guys closer to you. They are getting back into the competiton scene too.
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post #11 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 12:15 PM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Yeah, that was the beauty of that car. ID compression drivers and mids up front (if I remember right) and 2 aperiodic 12's, only 6 drivers. I remember a magazine article where Rich was talking about being able to crank the volume and it was silent outside the car...



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post #12 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 12:31 PM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Actually, not ID compression drivers. They were Altec 288L's I believe. They have a 2' throat and are about 30lbs each. I still have a set of them. They were so large, a part of the firewall was cut out and the compression drivers were really under the hood. Richard also claims he had a gating system between the 10's in the rear side panels and 4' under the dash. As volume increased, you reached a preset threshold and the 10's took over from the 4's. No one ever saw this though. That same 6 speaker system design of the original GN was used by Speaker Works in Harry Kimura's Legend, Todd Matsabura's T-Bird and BoB Troxler's RX-7.
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post #13 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 12:39 PM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Very nice! Boy, reminds me of my days building systems. Read a lot of books and sound system engineering textbooks and even wrote a few passive crossover design programs (in DOS, it was that long ago). Fun stuff. Always wanted to do some folded horn stuff but got into this computer thing.. then bikes and.. man... I don't only have *so* many hobbies.

But then again.. I have been dying to build a real audio system for my house........ The wife will be thrilled that I have found something else to spend money on!
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-30-2003, 2:00 PM
 
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Re: watch this stereo vid

Holeshot, build some elliptical horns int the wall of the room. I listened to some hand made wooden horns and it was probably the best thing I've ever heard. Unfortunately they 12' long and occupied the room behind them, but I think it's worth it! I just have to get my wife to agree.

LTL, plenty of people ship their car to me, I'd be happy to do a car for you but I could give you names in your area that are more than qualified.

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