Takedown in TO!! - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 7:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Takedown in TO!!

Justified?

Look, lean, believe!!
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post #2 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 7:04 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Sounds good to me.
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post #3 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 7:11 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Justified? Yes!

We carry Sudecon wipes for "our" patients that have been sprayed by the cops. My angle on that is that if they needed to be sprayed, I don't necessarily need to make them feel better and take the sting out of their eyes. I haven't used them yet but if my cop buddies need to spray, let them suffer I say.
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post #4 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 7:12 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Been better if he was under the tire.

It's amazing how stupid some people can be.
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post #5 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 7:16 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

[armachair QB]
The car was a bit much, and it was only luck that prevented serious/fatal injuries to the perp. Someone's been playing GTA a little too long. They should've tasered/beanbagged/etc him instead.
[/armachair QB]

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post #6 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 8:59 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

The officers in this case, at least the ones closest to the suspect, could have shot him dead and, in all probability, weathered the aftermath.

Let me explain...

About twenty years ago, a Salt Lake City PD sergeant named Dennis Tueller developed what we in policing know today as the Tueller Drill. The Tueller Drill proved an average person could cover 21' in 1.5 seconds from a standing start before an average officer is able to respond with gunfire.

Most of us know that but for a shot to the heart, brain or spine, it's possible for an assailant to keep coming even after they've been shot. So even if you could get off a couple rounds before a knife wielding subject makes it to you (i.e. you've already brought your weapon to bear), it remains very likely that you're going to get cut, maybe badly.

What you saw in the video there was something of a goat-rope, a disorganized, haphazard response by police officers, not all of whom were acting in a highly disciplined way IMO. But that can be the nature of the beast in these situations. You have mere nano-moments to think and react... and the whole world has weeks and months to ruminate over your actions when the dust has settled.

Courts tell us police officers are not expected to retreat. The officers in this situation could not afford to let this individual break their containment area and get to innocent citizens whom might have been harmed.

While less-lethal options such as bean bag rounds, Pepperball guns and Tasers could certainly be of great value in an incident such as this, I can only assume the officers in question didn't have these devices at their disposal.

I have been party to a handful of incidents much like the one we observed in this video. My 'policy' is and remains very simple: (a) I will not retreat, risking falling over backwards or allowing the subject to get out of my containment area; (b) I will give the individual an opportunity to disarm (we're talking about a perishable period of time here, not long folks); (c) if less-lethal is available, it's used; (d) if it's not, deadly force is called for and the hammer is coming down, period.

Note: courts have also said that deadly force is deadly force, so running this guy over with a car versus shooting him to death with a firearm is largely a moot point.

FWIW...

Last edited by Chain; 03-08-2005 at 9:02 PM.
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post #7 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 9:02 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by soon2b954
Absoulutly.

Last edited by G-Force Junkie; 03-08-2005 at 9:02 PM.
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post #8 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 10:29 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by soon2b954
Awesome !!!

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post #9 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 10:36 PM
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Nice job pinning him against that pole...sucker couldn't budge.

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post #10 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 10:46 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Good to see them not using lethal force. The guy is obviously nuttier than a peanut log, but that doesnt mean he should die. Good on them for showing some humanity towards a person that clearly has psychological issues.

Poking the Devil with a stick then running away
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-08-2005, 11:01 PM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

I love it when the police are allowed to do their jobs and people appreciate it. Justified? You bet!!

Never trust a big butt and a smile...
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post #12 of 32 Old 03-09-2005, 1:10 AM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

I could live with him dying.... But I'm just as happy about him being alive to hopefully change for the better.

Be fast or be last.
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-09-2005, 7:49 AM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Keep in mind, nutty buddies can be dangerous to the extreme. Anyone remember the "Sniper" case. Wasn't that dude a vagrant and pan-handler for years?


Worst part about that, is Toronto PD has some weak spray, that comes out in a mist instead of heavy liquid form. Looks like 1 Officer took out 2 of his buddies. Not good. Didn't help he sprayed into the wind either, I guess.
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-09-2005, 8:14 AM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Wow TO cops are nice! In Chicago that guy would have been done for sure. Very cool that they did not use lethal force, almost seems like the guy wanted them to shoot. They showed tremendous self control.
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-09-2005, 9:34 AM
 
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Re: Takedown in TO!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain
The officers in this case, at least the ones closest to the suspect, could have shot him dead and, in all probability, weathered the aftermath.

Let me explain...

About twenty years ago, a Salt Lake City PD sergeant named Dennis Tueller developed what we in policing know today as the Tueller Drill. The Tueller Drill proved an average person could cover 21' in 1.5 seconds from a standing start before an average officer is able to respond with gunfire.

Most of us know that but for a shot to the heart, brain or spine, it's possible for an assailant to keep coming even after they've been shot. So even if you could get off a couple rounds before a knife wielding subject makes it to you (i.e. you've already brought your weapon to bear), it remains very likely that you're going to get cut, maybe badly.

What you saw in the video there was something of a goat-rope, a disorganized, haphazard response by police officers, not all of whom were acting in a highly disciplined way IMO. But that can be the nature of the beast in these situations. You have mere nano-moments to think and react... and the whole world has weeks and months to ruminate over your actions when the dust has settled.

Courts tell us police officers are not expected to retreat. The officers in this situation could not afford to let this individual break their containment area and get to innocent citizens whom might have been harmed.

While less-lethal options such as bean bag rounds, Pepperball guns and Tasers could certainly be of great value in an incident such as this, I can only assume the officers in question didn't have these devices at their disposal.

I have been party to a handful of incidents much like the one we observed in this video. My 'policy' is and remains very simple: (a) I will not retreat, risking falling over backwards or allowing the subject to get out of my containment area; (b) I will give the individual an opportunity to disarm (we're talking about a perishable period of time here, not long folks); (c) if less-lethal is available, it's used; (d) if it's not, deadly force is called for and the hammer is coming down, period.

Note: courts have also said that deadly force is deadly force, so running this guy over with a car versus shooting him to death with a firearm is largely a moot point.

FWIW...

Ever kill a man?

And then there's this asshole...
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