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post #1 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

By DON THOMPSON

The Associated Press

SACRAMENTO

A proposal to put a serial number on every handgun bullet passed a Senate committee Tuesday and law enforcement officials said they hoped the novel effort would spread to other states.

The measure cleared the Senate Public Safety Committee Tuesday on a 4-2 vote over opposition from sportsmen, firearms dealers and manufacturers who said it is impractical and would harm law-abiding citizens.

The technology now exists to laser-cut each bullet with a serial number, said Sen. Joseph Dunn, D-Garden Grove, who is carrying the bill. Police would immediately be able to trace who purchased bullets used in crimes.

Purchasers would pay up to a halfpenny per bullet to fund record-keeping by the state Department of Justice on every handgun-caliber bullet made or sold in California. Vendors would pay up to $50 a year to register. Rifle ammunition would be exempted, though some calibers are used in both handguns and long guns.

"We'll solve a lot of crimes if this becomes law," said Attorney General Bill Lockyer, who supported the bill. "This proposal is kind of like DNA science applied to ballistics."

He acknowledged criminals could find ways around the law, but said milk, medicine, soda cans and most other things sold in stores have identification numbers.

"Why not bullets?" he said.

Lawrence Keane, general counsel of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute Inc., said American manufacturers produce 8 billion bullets a year, 15 million a day. They would have to either stop selling in California or rebuild ammunition plants at a cost of hundred of millions of dollars, he said, disputing far lower cost estimates by proponents.

U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Alpine, who chairs the U.S. House Armed Services Committee, fears the measure would also harm police and the military who would be exempted but get their ammunition from the same factories.

Hunter sent Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger a letter Monday warning of the impact on manufacturers and what he called a resulting threat to national security.

A manufacturers' representative said the proposed system is impractical, while an ammunition distributor and firing range owner said they feared the bill would put them out of business. Republicans on the committee were skeptical and voted against it.

The law would take effect in July 2007, giving gun owners enough time to use existing bullets, Dunn said.

But Gerald Upholt, a lobbyist for the California Rifle and Pistol Association, said law-abiding citizens would be stuck with millions of rounds of ammunition.

Lockyer, who plans to seek the Democratic nomination for governor next year, had considered identification systems similar to ones in Maryland and New York that record the unique markings each gun makes when it fires a bullet.

He said such a system was impractical because so many guns are sold in California. Lockyer concluded that a national tracking system made more sense.

Dunn said the California proposal is the first step toward a national system
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:19 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

The gun grabber lobby does this for one reason. The slow, methodical method of taking away your right to own a gun.

The bullets come in a box with a serial number on it too, like milk. They don't come in a loose pile. What, are we going to put radioactive isotopes in milk so when a criminal takes a piss we know what milk it came from?

The whole other issue is for reloaders. How is that going to work? Or do the reloaders suddenly lose the right to make their own ammo? How about those that cast their own bullets? Are they now outlaws?




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post #3 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:21 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

dumbest damn thing I've ever heard.

The M&M package is coded, but is each individual M&M candy? Didn't think so.

Wonder how they think they are going to stop reloaders?

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post #4 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:27 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

As any other Canadians here can attest to, attempts on gun control / registration end up as a bureaucratic nightmare and will just cost money and not solve anything.

Only a stupid liberal politician would dream this up. WHat about the guys that make their own ammo?

And then there's this asshole...
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post #5 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:29 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

Hello...is this thing on?


I guess I'm to be a criminal since I own reloading equipment.




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post #6 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:30 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvtolean
What, are we going to put radioactive isotopes in milk

hehe you already do it's called BGH, brought to you by the friendly folks at Monsanto COrp.

And then there's this asshole...
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post #7 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:46 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

The moron has never heard of a file. The honest person pays a 1/2 cent tax on each bullet + the added manufacturing cost. The criminal either rides across the border or spends a couple of minutes with a file.

Must obey the sheep dog
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:48 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

Same thing with Id'ing a barrel. Take a file or hone, alter the barrel after "fingerprinting" and on you go.




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Last edited by luvtolean; 04-27-2005 at 4:49 PM.
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post #9 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:50 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

Then you're gonna need a file and wirebrush registry.

Our liberal government tried to create a federal gun registry a couple of years back; it cost 2 billion (and still counting) in bureaucratic waste and hasn't changed a damn thing. Most gun owners refuse to register and cops refuse to enforce the laws. And yet the government is still too stupid to end it now and cut their losses.

And then there's this asshole...
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:51 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvtolean
Same thing with Id'ing a barrel. Take a file, file a little ridge in the barrel after "fingerprinting" and on you go.
Exactly. And what if you have an aftermarket barrel and replaced the extractor!? The "fingerprint" left on spent brass is going to be different!

I think they are searching for a solution to no problem...

Dumbest damn thing I've ever heard... So when you buy a box of 500 rounds, the feds are gonna keep up with each s/n in the 500 pieces? and for how long? So will an FFL be required to buy/sell ammo? Dumbasses.

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post #11 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 4:54 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

This will hit Gun Owners from several directions. The ways LTL spoke of and also will drive the cost of ammo through the roof. An as a result some ammo companies will go out of business-side benefit for libs. Nothing personal Californians but your state is a factory for these type of Anti-Freedom bills. Every gunowner I know( I know many) are hard working assets to their local economies. Pull out of that state and hit them where it hurts. Pay taxes in a state that actually listens to it's citizens. I know it's easy to say but I'd like to see a liberal government function without hard working people shouldering the burden.

Also bullets get pretty mangled ... I guess there is a chance you could recover some part of the serial # ...whatever. Maybe these people in gov should take the time to actually research what they vote for/against. Wishful thinking.

I came here to chew bubble gum and to kick some ass...and I'm all out of bubble gum.

Last edited by rocket; 04-27-2005 at 4:55 PM.
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post #12 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 5:01 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

Yeah, I edited my post. Just tightening the extractor will change how/where the pin hits. So will altering how deeply the primer is set (so lot/lot ammo variations)

Here are the current proposed gun laws. Also, make sure you check out AB 448 if you are an enthusiast!

http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml




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post #13 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 5:06 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket
Nothing personal Californians but your state is a factory for these type of Anti-Freedom bills. Every gunowner I know( I know many) are hard working assets to their local economies. Pull out of that state and hit them where it hurts. Pay taxes in a state that actually listens to it's citizens. I know it's easy to say but I'd like to see a liberal government function without hard working people shouldering the burden.

I hear this opinion time and again, especially from people in your part of the country. (It's part of the reason I quit giving the NRA money, I truly feel they do not give a damn about us over here, and are actually ambivalent to anyone stupid enough to live in CA.) And I think if people actually did this in any appreciable number, it would be disaster.

CA is the country's most powerful economy. It is a major trendsetter. If gun owners all left, this stuff would all pass, unopposed. An outright ban on guns will happen in CA as soon as the politicians think they can do it.

And if CA, the country's largest consumer of guns, suddenly becomes totally anti-gun the cancer will have fully taken hold. And then it will spread.

How quickly everyone forgets the Assault Weapons Bill, forged and "proven" here....




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Last edited by luvtolean; 04-27-2005 at 5:08 PM.
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post #14 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 5:08 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

One of the reasons I moved to VA was so I could enjoy some freedoms I could not in MD and HI. My comment was empathetic if you want to take it the wrong way and label me with the "thems" then knock yourself out.

Tell me when they take away the right to own everything but an airsoft pistol at some point would you even consider jetting?


Quote:
Originally Posted by luvtolean
I hear this opinion time and again, especially from people in your part of the country. (It's part of the reason I quit giving the NRA money, I truly feel they do not give a damn about us over here, and are actually ambivalent to anyone stupid enough to live in CA.) And I think if people actually did this in any appreciable number, it would be disaster.

CA is the country's most powerful economy. It is a major trendsetter. If gun owners all left, this stuff would all pass, unopposed. An outright ban on guns will happen in CA as soon as the politicians think they can do it.

And if CA, the country's largest consumer of guns, suddenly becomes totally anti-gun the cancer will have fully taken hold. And then it will spread.

How quickly everyone forgets the Assault Weapons Bill, forged and "proven" here....

I came here to chew bubble gum and to kick some ass...and I'm all out of bubble gum.

Last edited by rocket; 04-27-2005 at 5:19 PM.
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-27-2005, 5:56 PM
 
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Re: Kali politicians want serial numbers on bullets

I don't mean to offend. In general I'm a bit sensitive on this as I feel nothing but sorrow when I hear gun rights' sympathizers, if not activists, who must stick together criticize someone they basically agree with but disagree over a technicality and end up at each other's throats. This happens to me anytime I post on a gun board about something.

I do admire your move to a place with laws more to your chosen way of life. It is a statement of its own. Did you compose and send a letter to your governor about it? I've composed mine to the Governator many times (in my head).

Quote:
Tell me when they take away the right to own everything but an airsoft pistol at some point would you even consider jetting?
First of all, there is a reasonable chance I'll leave the state in the somewhat near future, within say a year or 2, for what I consider much less important reasons. I do think CA is the best place in the world for me from a climate/terrain/career standpoint.

However, it is very expensive, housing is way overpriced and there are more laws I disagree with every year. I have to take a bit of this as my fault as I am certainly not as active as I could be in political issues.

I've had this discussion many times with my GF who I live with, including last weekend after a local gun shop owner told us, "your watch battery will outlast your right to own a gun in this state".

If CA went through with a serious gun ban, say the banning of weapons with a detatchable magazine (the focus of our hypothetical), I would be left with 3 options:

1) Shoot it out with the authorities when they come to take them, and most certainly be killed (what the GF envisions/fears I would do)
2) Move
3) Stay and become radically active in government

Turning in my guns to the government I don't think I can do, so that kinda rules out 3. I also think being a martyr is highly overrated. So I'd almost certainly take option 2.




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...you are trying to insult me, and I agree it is very easy to do, if you haven't sufficient respect for yourself. - Tolstoy
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