Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work: - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

A compressed-air 'hybrid". Has someone already thought of this?

I've often had what I thought were brilliant ideas only to find out that someone else has already thought of it, tested it, marketed it... and failed. When I was 14 I "invented" disc valves. "Dad, instead of tappets, cams and springs why don't they just use a timed spinning disc with holes cut in it?" "That's been done son, now finish your meatloaf."

Ok. Run a clutched air compressor off the flywheel, which the driver could engage when braking, especially when going down hills. The compressor helps brake the vehicle, while pressurizing a cylinder with filtered air. The system could be automatic / computerized like modern regenerative braking systems, or could be manually operated. Then, when you need a burst of power (like going up a hill or passing) you could blast your pressurized filtered air into the airbox, like a supercharger.

Why wouldn't this work?

And then there's this asshole...

Last edited by phobiaphobe; 12-19-2005 at 1:44 AM.
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post #2 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 12:36 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Ford already thought of the second part. The scrapped lightning for this body style had a tank of supercooled air that was cooled from the AC coolant. Then when the accelerator is mashed to the floor, it tripped a microswitch which opened said tank and ran this super-cooled air (I forget the temp) through the supercharger and into the engine resulting in a big boost in HP for 20 seconds I think...

Now finish your meatloaf...
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post #3 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

That's different. With mine, you are capturing "free" energy from braking. With the supercooler(TM) you still have to mechanically compress and cool that air using engine power.

And then there's this asshole...
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post #4 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 12:44 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Seems like with that system, you didnt have to have use the a/c, it just used the refridgerant to cool it...

Can you pass the mashed potatos?
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post #5 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Yabut AFAIK the refrigerant is useless without the A/C compressor. Quit winking at me you creep.

And then there's this asshole...
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post #6 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 12:57 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

I was winking at Jessica.... Duh...
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post #7 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 1:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:


And then there's this asshole...
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post #8 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 3:22 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Caculate the volume of air a typicly engine pumps through it and you will see why it is impractal unless you have a HUGE tank and super efficent pump. For example a typical big block V8 moves about 2 gallons of air every cycle, so 1 gallon every revolution. At lets say 3000 RPM, thats 50 RPS (revs per second). That motor is moving 50 gallons a second. You want to make it act like a supercharger, your going to need somewhere around 4 to 6 PSI minimum. At sea level that means about 30-50% more air. So guestamate you need to stuff 75 gallons of air in each second. Now go take a look at an 80 gallon air compressor and see how big the tank is and picture that strapped on you roof Sure you could increase the pressure to 1000's of PSI, but you would need an incredable pump to do that PSI and Volume, and then your dealing with a huge amount of heat you produce compressing a gas.

No, I'm not a ME, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night
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post #9 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 4:51 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Force Junkie

No, I'm not a ME, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night
You screwed the pooch. It's the express you wanted...not the regular ol Holiday Inn!

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post #10 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 8:19 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Quote:
Originally Posted by phobiaphobe
A compressed-air 'hybrid". Has someone already thought of this?

I've often had what I thought were brilliant ideas only to find out that someone else has already thought of it, tested it, marketed it... and failed. When I was 14 I "invented" disc valves. "Dad, instead of tappets, cams and springs why don't they just use a timed spinning disc with holes cut in it?" "That's been done son, now finish your meatloaf."

Ok. Run a clutched air compressor off the flywheel, which the driver could engage when braking, especially when going down hills. The compressor helps brake the vehicle, while pressurizing a cylinder with filtered air. The system could be automatic / computerized like modern regenerative braking systems, or could be manually operated. Then, when you need a burst of power (like going up a hill or passing) you could blast your pressurized filtered air into the airbox, like a supercharger.

Why wouldn't this work?
There are quite a few people working on these...pretty old idea actually. We have a local guy here that is trying to go coast to coast. He's been several hundred miles at a time already.

One link to a Korean compressed air hybrid... http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/30/spark.air.car/

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post #11 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 9:18 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Phobe,

WTF are you doing selling cars? You should getting your ME degree. Seriously.

HD
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post #12 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 9:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Force Junkie
Caculate the volume of air a typicly engine pumps through it and you will see why it is impractal unless you have a HUGE tank and super efficent pump. For example a typical big block V8 moves about 2 gallons of air every cycle, so 1 gallon every revolution. At lets say 3000 RPM, thats 50 RPS (revs per second). That motor is moving 50 gallons a second. You want to make it act like a supercharger, your going to need somewhere around 4 to 6 PSI minimum. At sea level that means about 30-50% more air. So guestamate you need to stuff 75 gallons of air in each second. Now go take a look at an 80 gallon air compressor and see how big the tank is and picture that strapped on you roof Sure you could increase the pressure to 1000's of PSI, but you would need an incredable pump to do that PSI and Volume, and then your dealing with a huge amount of heat you produce compressing a gas.

No, I'm not a ME, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night
Good point. How do the numbers work out in a little 1.6L 4 banger?

And then there's this asshole...
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post #13 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 9:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy-Dee
Phobe,

WTF are you doing selling cars? You should getting your ME degree. Seriously.

HD
Because I have an attention span of about 3 sec... wanna ride bikes?

And then there's this asshole...
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post #14 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baketech
There are quite a few people working on these...pretty old idea actually. We have a local guy here that is trying to go coast to coast. He's been several hundred miles at a time already.

One link to a Korean compressed air hybrid... http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/03/30/spark.air.car/
Damn Mongorians!


That's pretty cool, but unless I read wrong, they aren't using the chemical energy of the air in combustion, but rather using the kinetic energy to power sort of an air engine.

WHat about using the compressed air to power other auxilliary systems, thereby conserving a bit of fuel? Or maybe instead of trying to pressurize the airbox you use it to drive a mechanical motor... I like the idea of regenerative braking, because that energy is otherwise wasted as heat, but I can't imagine that it actually captures that much electricity in a Pious or Inspite. I figger with compressed air you at least capture a substantial measurable amount of power... the compressor probably gives you more linear braking too. (compared to a generator)

I remember reading about a similar concept that Ford was testing involving a hydraulic pump; it would aid in braking and then the power could be used mechanically. What ever happened to that?

And then there's this asshole...

Last edited by phobiaphobe; 12-19-2005 at 12:05 PM.
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post #15 of 86 Old 12-19-2005, 11:42 AM
 
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Re: Ok MEs, tell me why this wouldn't work:

Just buy more gas, you fruity leaf.
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