E85: Feasible or Folly? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Off-Topic Discussion of anything that doesn't fit anywhere else. If it's related to motorcycles in any way, DO NOT post it here. Post it in General Discussion or a more specific forum.

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
 
Baketech's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-10-2002
Location: Hoosierland, USA
Posts: 11,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 42
                   
E85: Feasible or Folly?

Went cross country this weekend and noticed a "few" stations were selling E85. It appeared to be significantly more expensive than gasoline or even E10. I pondered it a bit, but was left with more questions than answers...

I know it's early, but does anyone think that E85 will catch on and become a viable option?

Is E85 really a feasible fuel, or a political distraction?

Is anyone out there using E85 yet, and if so, what are your thoughts thus far?

Sith Apprentice
CBR929 - VFR800 - VFR800
"There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one..." - Joey Dunlop
Baketech is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 12:06 PM
 
smoothrideronli's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-07-2005
Location: New York
Age: 45
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 18
     
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

I have done a bit of research on alternative fuel for my job...since E85 is not available in my area I dont know much info about it...but I dont really see an advantage to it from a consumer standpoint. You can buy many vehicles that can run on E85, but those vehicles also run on regular gas (at least the ones I have researched). How can E85 catch on if as a vehicle owner I will not notice a difference if any and still have to pay more for it? Like I said I am not an expert on E85 so correct me if I said something wrong.
smoothrideronli is offline  
post #3 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 12:16 PM
 
Join Date: 08-01-2001
Posts: 14,390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
                 
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

I'd like E85 from a performance standpoint. I could build a high compression turbocharged ripper with ethanol and still pass emissions. I actually have got far enough into looking at ethanol stuff to check into the plastics compatibility of Ford's stuff, and to call the BAR to check into smog rules...you simply have to pass the smog limits in place for your car, it doesn't matter what's in the tank. I also learned several cars can run it that you don't know can.

The problem is cost and availablility. If it costs as much, or more, than gasoline, it will never, ever catch on. You also need availability at least on par with diesel, and even then, you'll need the highway exits marked for stops with E85, similar to diesel as well.

I hope it goes, but I have my doubts....



luvtolean is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 12:23 PM
 
phobiaphobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-23-2004
Location: Omnipresent
Age: 37
Posts: 11,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 43
                     
Send a message via MSN to phobiaphobe
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

Ethanol won't replace fossil fuels unless fossil fuels run out. While it is a renewable resource it's incredibly inefficient. It takes about (figures pulled from foggy memory, could be out a bit) a 1000lb bale of straw to yield 50 gallons of fuel. How many gallons of diesel will tractors burn to harvest it?

Also, engine designs will have to change to accomodate it. Doesn't ethanol absorb a whole bunch of water?

Here's a good Bedard piece:

link

And then there's this asshole...
phobiaphobe is offline  
post #5 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 12:36 PM
 
Join Date: 06-10-2004
Posts: 1,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
     
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baketech
Is E85 really a feasible fuel, or a political distraction?

Is anyone out there using E85 yet, and if so, what are your thoughts thus far?
Brazil uses it, and has for many years (I used to be in a group that delivered fuel and control systems to Ford and VW down there).

To take advantage of it, your engine, and fuel system, must be configured for it. Plastics are not as much an issue as the seals are. Need more compression, and since the heating value is less you need to burn more to get the same power out.

As Phobe notes, it won't replace fossil fuels as long as their price can be kept resonable. Having it in the system does give options if gas goes up, and also serves to put pressure on the foreign gas companies to keep prices down. So I think it is a good thing to bring into the system. Gas stations can store it now with just a few modifications (updades seals, special vents on tank vents, etc.)

Alcohol is hydroscopic (absorbs water), which is why the special vents are needed ... to keep humid air out.

There are also a few other issues with alcohol, like low flash points, which is one of the reasons for 15% gasolene.... it also keeps people from drinking it

Sorry for being wordy, but now need to leave the office so won't get to participate any more this afternoon.
gt702 is offline  
post #6 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 12:37 PM
 
Join Date: 08-01-2001
Posts: 14,390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
                 
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

Brazil will also soon be stopping all importation of fossil fuels after the government comitted to it.

I personally don't see it happening in the US, but would love to.



luvtolean is offline  
post #7 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:04 PM
 
Join Date: 05-09-2003
Posts: 4,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
                   
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

A smart leader could encourage "patriots" to buy it as a means of giving a big middle finger to the Gulf states. Or even curmudgeons.

However, a smart leader probably wouldn't trust the security of certain airports in the US to the same people.
CBRVFR is offline  
post #8 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:05 PM
 
Join Date: 08-01-2001
Posts: 14,390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
                 
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?



**** that's funny...



luvtolean is offline  
post #9 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:06 PM Thread Starter
 
Baketech's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-10-2002
Location: Hoosierland, USA
Posts: 11,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 42
                   
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

What about the issue of MTBE...will it keep ethanol prices up so high that E85 cannot be priced competitively...

Sith Apprentice
CBR929 - VFR800 - VFR800
"There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one..." - Joey Dunlop
Baketech is offline  
post #10 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:09 PM
 
smoothrideronli's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-07-2005
Location: New York
Age: 45
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 18
     
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRVFR
A smart leader could encourage "patriots" to buy it as a means of giving a big middle finger to the Gulf states. Or even curmudgeons.

However, a smart leader probably wouldn't trust the security of certain airports in the US to the same people.
Smart leaders...I thought those went extinct in the year 2000...
smoothrideronli is offline  
post #11 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:11 PM
 
Join Date: 02-07-2002
Posts: 10,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
                     
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothrideronli
Smart leaders...I thought those went extinct in the year 2000...
More like 1992.
BDA116 is offline  
post #12 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:16 PM Thread Starter
 
Baketech's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-10-2002
Location: Hoosierland, USA
Posts: 11,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 42
                   
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

Before we dive off into the politics of the issue...does anyone think that the physics are feasible in the US... ?

Sith Apprentice
CBR929 - VFR800 - VFR800
"There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one..." - Joey Dunlop
Baketech is offline  
post #13 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:33 PM
 
smoothrideronli's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-07-2005
Location: New York
Age: 45
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 18
     
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

I think its the politics that determine the feasability...at this point in time I dont think it will work.
smoothrideronli is offline  
post #14 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:34 PM
 
phobiaphobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-23-2004
Location: Omnipresent
Age: 37
Posts: 11,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 43
                     
Send a message via MSN to phobiaphobe
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

What you're missing is an extremely vast physical acreage of farmland. The existing farmland is already utilized.

You could reduce your reliance on the Arabs but you'll increase your reliance on Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and to a lesser extent Alberta.

And then there's this asshole...
phobiaphobe is offline  
post #15 of 81 Old 02-20-2006, 1:35 PM
 
smoothrideronli's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-07-2005
Location: New York
Age: 45
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 18
     
Re: E85: Feasible or Folly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phobiaphobe
What you're missing is an extremely vast physical acreage of farmland. The existing farmland is already utilized.

You could reduce your reliance on the Arabs but you'll increase your reliance on Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and to a lesser extent Alberta.
Canada!!!
smoothrideronli is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org > Other > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
A valid e-mail address is REQUIRED. You will not have access to any site features until you activate your account using the activation e-mail that is sent to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Similar to Dog Toy or Marital Aid: My little Pony or Porn Star? WetShrub Off-Topic 5 03-15-2007 1:32 PM
Anybody Own an '04 Ford or Dodge 3/4 or 1 Ton? Gearhead Off-Topic 10 05-27-2004 6:53 PM
954 vs busa or zx-12 or xx kin Honda FireBlade 12 06-09-2003 4:54 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome