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post #1 of 73 Old 11-01-2006, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Remember Records?

The "What are you listening to?" thread got me giving the Excursion's CD player a work out. Mostly Joe Cocker's "Ultimate Collection" this time around.
The CD sounds great, awesome clarity! But I am reminded of a discussion I heard awhile back about how our ears find analog recordings more satisfying.
Anyone have any info or opinion on this?

Conquer yourself rather than the world.
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post #2 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 6:52 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

It was explained to me a while ago when CD were just coming out that vinyls had much better sound quality. The problem was that the quality degraded after each use. That was how it was explained to me.

Now, can my ears notice a difference? CD's were easier to handle at the time. Now days, itunes is where I get my music.
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post #3 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 7:33 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

OH yeah how the HISS, CRACKLE and, POP added to the music
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post #4 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 7:46 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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Originally Posted by Mojave954 View Post
OH yeah how the HISS, CRACKLE and, POP added to the music
I'll give you ten bucks for every bit of hiss, crackle and pop you hear on ANY of my records. There are ways to handle records that eliminate these problems you know . . .

There are so many fidelity compromises involved in creating digital CDs/MP3s and every other digital storage medium, that listening to them is not an option for me.

Lee, I have written papers on this subject and several articles and papers have been published over the past ten years on exactly this subject. Unfortunately, audiophiles and professional listeners are like Mac users in that they are in the minority and only a few companies find it worthwhile to manufacture products for this small market.

All I can say is that anyone that has taken the time to listen to good recordings on a decent system back to back with their digital counterpart has never chosen digital as the better sounding medium.
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post #5 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 8:06 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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I'll give you ten bucks for every bit of hiss, crackle and pop you hear on ANY of my records. There are ways to handle records that eliminate these problems you know . . .

There are so many fidelity compromises involved in creating digital CDs/MP3s and every other digital storage medium, that listening to them is not an option for me.

Lee, I have written papers on this subject and several articles and papers have been published over the past ten years on exactly this subject. Unfortunately, audiophiles and professional listeners are like Mac users in that they are in the minority and only a few companies find it worthwhile to manufacture products for this small market.

All I can say is that anyone that has taken the time to listen to good recordings on a decent system back to back with their digital counterpart has never chosen digital as the better sounding medium.
Interesting. Now if I can just resurrect some of the old turntables stuffed in my basement...
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post #6 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 8:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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I'll give you ten bucks for every bit of hiss, crackle and pop you hear on ANY of my records. There are ways to handle records that eliminates these problems you know . . .

There are so many fifelity compromises involved in creating digital CDs/MP3s and every other digital storage medium, that listening to them is not an option for me.

Lee, I have written papers on this subject and several articles and papers have been published over the past ten years on exactly this subject. Unfortunately, audiophiles and professional listeners are like Mac users in that they are in the minority and only a few companies find it worthwhile to manufacture products for this small market.

All I can say is that anyone that has taken the time to listen to good recordings on a decent system back to back with their digital counterpart has never chosen digital as the better sounding medium.
That's what I thought. How do I access your writings?
Vinyl records were a pain to keep perfect, that's for sure! But, worth it as I understand it. I am not sure my compromised ears would be able to appreciate the true difference anymore.
But, long ago, 1979 I believe, A friend of mine came up with a "master pressing" of Pink Floyd's' Dark side of the moon LP. I don't know what the stereo components were, other than Bose 901s. But as I remember, it bordered on a spiritual experience! Especially the song were that woman does the vocal thing! Wow, still gives me chills!

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post #7 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 8:14 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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Originally Posted by HondaGalToo View Post
Interesting. Now if I can just resurrect some of the old turntables stuffed in my basement...
and once you find the turntable, have fun finding the phono input on a newer receiver . . .

Good stereo gear has a well designed extremely low noise RIAA phonograph input. The last receiver I tried that still had phono inputs sounded just as bad as the digital stuff because it was a "single chip" solution for the entire preamp assembly and was terrible.

You really need good components throughout the entire system to be able to listen to any music source. Single box solutions aren't going to get you there and anything that has a surround processor (THx or Dolby) won't correctly decode 2 channel stereo.

okay, I refuse to get dragged into this again . . .
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post #8 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 8:20 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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That's what I thought. How do I access your writings?
Vinyl records were a pain to keep perfect, that's for sure! But, worth it as I understand it. I am not sure my compromised ears would be able to appreciate the true difference anymore.
But, long ago, 1979 I believe, A friend of mine came up with a "master pressing" of Pink Floyd's' Dark side of the moon LP. I don't know what the stereo components were, other than Bose 901s. But as I remember, it bordered on a spiritual experience! Especially the song were that woman does the vocal thing! Wow, still gives me chills!
If you still have a decent stereo rig, try to get a hold of some direct to disc recordings (Sheffield, Duetsch Gramaphone, American Gramaphone etc.). They will make a mediocre system sound incredible and a great system beyond belief.

I have several of these that were played once and that was to transfer them to 1/2" 2 track tape at 30 ips for long term playback. You lose a generation, but since the Direct to Disc process eliminates 3 to 4 generations already, it's still exceptional.

I'll dig through the archives and see if I can find some of my ramblings. They are all written to a technical audience, so be forewarned . . .
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post #9 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 8:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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Originally Posted by abtech View Post
and once you find the turntable, have fun finding the phono input on a newer receiver . . .

Good stereo gear has a well designed extremely low noise RIAA phonograph input. The last receiver I tried that still had phono inputs sounded just as bad as the digital stuff because it was a "single chip" solution for the entire preamp assembly and was terrible.

You really need good components throughout the entire system to be able to listen to any music source. Single box solutions aren't going to get you there and anything that has a surround processor (THx or Dolby) won't correctly decode 2 channel stereo.

okay, I refuse to get dragged into this again . . .
No doubt, so much has changed!
Remember what a big deal the Craig Powerplay 8 track car stereo was?
When the light came on you were pushing ALL 8 watts!

Conquer yourself rather than the world.
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post #10 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 8:25 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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No doubt, so much has changed!
Remember what a big deal the Craig Powerplay 8 track car stereo was?
When the light came on you were pushing ALL 8 watts!
As I mentioned some time ago, the playback amplifier in my office dims the lights in my shop when it's powered up. If the source is tape (meaning the turntable arm won't be skipping from the low frequency energy at full chat), I can get the lights to blink on every kick drum hit.

It takes a 60 amp breaker to start it up without tripping . . .
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post #11 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 8:28 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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Originally Posted by abtech View Post
As I mentioned some time ago, the playback amplifier in my office dims the lights in my shop when it's powered up. If the source is tape (meaning the turntable arm won't be skipping from the low frequency energy at full chat), I can get the lights to blink on every kick drum hit.

It takes a 60 amp breaker to start it up without tripping . . .
Wow, I hope you live in a remote area!
Can you still hear, btw?

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post #12 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 9:51 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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Wow, I hope you live in a remote area!
Can you still hear, btw?
Very well, thanks for asking.

Dynamic range can be extreme without causing any hearing damage, while listening to something that is consistently loud (even at low volumes) that has a small dynamic range, bandwidth limiting, severe phase distortion, poor coherency and slow rise times (oops, I just described CD playback ) can be detrimental to your hearing even in low doses over time.

Listening to iPOD/MP3 headsets at even 88 to 95 dbSPL can cause permanent irreversible hearing damage in a relatively short period of time and is well documented.

Unfortunately, the bulk of live music today is being reinforced by low quality switching amplification and the levels of intermodulation distortion that people are exposed to is incredible. The last two concerts I attended were horrible and the artists felt they needed to keep the volume level consistently at or above the threshold of pain from the first note to the final "THANK YOOOUUUU" . . .

I enjoy loud music as long as there are some dynamics to allow you to maintain some perception of what "loud" actually is . . . When everything is played at a consistent 125 db or so, it's just irritating.
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post #13 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 9:52 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

Analog sucks, iPods rule!!!!
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post #14 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 9:55 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

Oh yeah, speaking of concerts, we went to the Journey / Def Leppard show this summer and the sound difference between them was amazing.
I don't know if you still know guys in the industry Ab, but whomever was running Journey's sound was flat out amazing. Their sound was by far the best I've heard at a concert.
I assume they were using much of the same equipment, but the quality of that sound was vastly different between the two bands.
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post #15 of 73 Old 11-02-2006, 10:04 AM
 
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Re: Remember Records?

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Originally Posted by BDA116 View Post
Oh yeah, speaking of concerts, we went to the Journey / Def Leppard show this summer and the sound difference between them was amazing.
I don't know if you still know guys in the industry Ab, but whomever was running Journey's sound was flat out amazing. Their sound was by far the best I've heard at a concert.
I assume they were using much of the same equipment, but the quality of that sound was vastly different between the two bands.
Too bad the band sucks.
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