Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote Stainless kits do not cover critical items such as brake rotor and caliper, suspension, or frame components because stainless does not have the sheer strength for these applications. No matter how tempting the thought may be please DO NOT USE stainless on structural components...

This is an excerpt from a Texas-based retailer that sells stainless steel fastener kits for motorcycles. Are the OEM bolts used on our calipers, rotors, etc., not stainless? I know that there are different grades of stainless steel, so is this guy just using crappy-grade SS and doesn't want the liability, or is he right?

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post #2 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 12:10 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

They're in houston as well

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post #3 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

That's all nice and $hit, Figment, but it doesn't answer my question.

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post #4 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 12:26 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

As far as I know - all SS. AL + cold steel =
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post #5 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 12:28 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Stainless has quite a bit of nickel in it and if the ratio of nickel to iron is high, then it is quite a bit weaker as a structural member than mild steel. *I think this guy is just covering his butt however, as graded bolts are graded on strength and hardness regardless of the material. *An SAE 8 stainless bolt would have the same minimum hardness and sheer strength as a same sized grade 8 steel bolt (or titanium or moly or whatever).

There is no AL in stainless steel BTW . . .

FYI:

*
TYPICAL CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL PROPERTIES OF STAINLESS STEEL

304 430 410
Chemical Composition (Austenitic) (Ferritic) (Martenitic)
(Max. unless otherwise noted) * *
* * * *
Carbon 0.08 0.12 0.15
Maganese 2.00 1.00 1.00
Phosphorus 0.045 0.04 0.04
Sulfur 0.03 0.03 0.03
Silicon 1.00 1.00 1.00
Chromium 18.00
- 20.00 16.00
-18.00 11.5
-13.50
Nickel 8.00
-10.50 *
* *
Tensile Strength
*Ksi 84 75 70
*MPa 579 517 483

Yield Strength (0.2% offset) *
*Ksi 42 50 45
*MPa 290 345 310

Elongation (in 2' / 50.8 mm)
*% 55 25 25

Hardness (Rockwell) * * * * * * * *
*B80 * B85 B80

Modulus of Elasticity in Tension *
psi x 10 to the 6 28 29 29
*GPa 193 200 200

Modulus of Elasticity in Torsion *
psi x 10 to the 6 12.5 * *
*GPa 86.2 *

Density
*lbs/cubic in 0.29 0.28 0.28
*kg/cubic meter 8060 7780 7780

Specific Heat * * * * *
* * * * * Btu/lb/F 0.12 0.11 0.11
32-212F ( 0-100C) J/kg.k 503 460 460

Thermal Conductivity * *
*Btu/hr/ft/F * * *
*212F (100C) 9.4 15.1 14.4
*932F (500C) 12.4 15.2 16.6
*W/m.K *
*212F (100C) 0.113 0.182 0.174
*932F (500C) 0.149 0.183 0.201

Mean Coefficient of Thermal Expansion
x10 to -6/F 32-212F
(0-100C) 9.6 5.8 5.5
*32-600F
(0-315C) 9.9 6.1 6.3
*32-1000F
(0-538C) 10.2 6.3 6.4
*32-1200F
(0-648C) 10.4 6.6 6.5
*32-1800F
(0-982C) * *6.9 .

x10 to -6/C * * * * * * * 32-212F
(0-100C) 17.3 10.4 5.5
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *32-600F
(0-315C) 17.9 11 6.3
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *32-1000F
(0-538C) 18.4 11.4 6.4
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *32-1200F
(0-648C) 18.8 11.9 6.5
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *32-1800F
(0-982C) * *12.4 * *

Melting Point * * * *
*F 2550
- 2650
2600
- 2750 2700
- 2790
*C 1400
- 1455 1425
-1510 1485
- 1535
Electrical Resistivity
Microhm - mm Type 304 Type 430 Type 410 S13800
68F (20C) 720 600 570 1020
212F (100C) 780 675 640 *
392F (200C) 860 770 720 *
752F (400C) 1000 925 880 *
1112F (600C) 1110 1050 1035 *
1472F (800C) 1210 1150 1110 *
1652F (900C) 1260 * *

For additional data please refer to the SSINA Handbook *
'Guidelines for the Selection and Use of Stainless Steel'




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post #6 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 12:37 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Frank,

Do you have specific details on what you are speaking about?
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post #7 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 1:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote:
abtech : An SAE 8 stainless bolt would have the same minimum hardness and sheer strength as a same sized grade 8 steel bolt (or titanium or moly or whatever).
That was just the kind of layman's explanation I was looking for. Thanks, Abtech!!!

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post #8 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 1:45 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote:
Pete : Quote (abtech @ Nov. 03 2003, 12:28pm)An SAE 8 stainless bolt would have the same minimum hardness and sheer strength as a same sized grade 8 steel bolt (or titanium or moly or whatever).
That was just the kind of layman's explanation I was looking for. *Thanks, Abtech!!!
a grade 8 bolt is marked. That was what you needed to know. an unmarked bolt is usually grade 5. Some SS bolts are only plated SS. Your source is probably using plated fasteners...

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post #9 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 1:47 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote:
Pete : Quote Stainless kits do not cover critical items such as brake rotor and caliper, suspension, or frame components because stainless does not have the sheer strength for these applications. No matter how tempting the thought may be please DO NOT USE stainless on structural components...
This is an excerpt from a Texas-based retailer that sells stainless steel fastener kits for motorcycles. *Are the OEM bolts used on our calipers, rotors, etc., not stainless? *I know that there are different grades of stainless steel, so is this guy just using crappy-grade SS and doesn't want the liability, or is he right?

Thanks,

Pete
He is correct in the sense that any commonly available SS fastener you find is going to have properties below that needed for the application....

The are going to be a 300 series part with a minimal tensile strength in the 75,000psi range.....
(By comparison, a Grade 5 fastener is rated around 120,000psi, a Grade 8 fastener is around 150,000psi, but most socket head cap screws exceed that spec, and are in the 180,000psi range)

That said, there are no Grade 8 stainless fasteners per se...

There are grades of SS such as 17-4PH & 410 etc, etc that have strengths in the realm of alloy fasteners, but its not something you will find on the shelf at the hardware store, and their other properties may not make them a good choice any way....

Bottom line:
His caveat is valid, unless you know the specs that are required and can choose a specialty SS fastener that meets them.

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post #10 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 1:49 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote:
Baketech : That said, there are no Grade 8 stainless fasteners per se...
true. We only use SS for battery strings...

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post #11 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 1:58 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Pete has sunk to a new low.
You should be banned for using that hideous beast for an avatar, you bastard!
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post #12 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 2:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote:
BDA116 : Pete has sunk to a new low.
You should be banned for using that hideous beast for an avatar, you bastard!
*
It's tough stooping to your level, BDA, but I am capable.




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post #13 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 2:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Thanks, Baketech and Figment, for talking the subject up a bit to help me learn.

I'll try to be nicer when you start trying to be smarter.
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post #14 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 2:05 PM
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote:
Pete : It's tough stopping to your level, BDA, but I am capable.
Stooping.
Louisiana Public School system at work.
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post #15 of 49 Old 11-03-2003, 2:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Calling all metalalalurgikal (sic) experts

Quote:
BDA116 : Quote (Pete @ Nov. 03 2003, 12:03pm)It's tough stopping to your level, BDA, but I am capable.
Stooping.
Louisiana Public School system at work.

They didn't teach us how to type while your wife is bitching you out over the telephone.

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