ABS...getting too good? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 2:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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ABS...getting too good?

here is the thing:

I had a 2001 GMC Sierra Z-71, short bed, reg cab. When I would come to a stop, at a stop sign, the ABS would come on for no reason...or what was thought to be no reason. When I say, it came on, it would give me that "pushback grind on the brake lever feeling" Now, with my 2003 Tacoma, quadcab doing the same thing I know its not the truck...its ABS in general. The thing is...if I am using my breaks slightly, and I hit washboards, or even a small bump...ABS will come on. For those of you that do not know what washboards are...its the small evenly placed bumps that appear on dirt packed roads from cars accelerating...then it becomes larger, and looks/feels like possi hop. I am even noticing it going over a quick bump (frost heave) here this winter...well when ABS comes on it feels like its robbing about 40% of my braking power...making quick stops impossible.

anyone else feeling this?

Team Honda - well sorta...

Last edited by showmethebombs; 02-11-2004 at 2:52 PM.
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post #2 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 2:54 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

I think I saw you driving around yesterday...the Tacoma with the shattered windshield on the passenger's side, right?
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post #3 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 2:55 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

It's proven that ABS causes longer braking distances for the experienced driver. If you know how to properly brake under adverse conditions, I recommend that you turn it off completely. If you are the guy that just hammers on the brakes regardless of conditions... well... you're screwed either way.

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post #4 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 3:07 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

That is the same problem that i have in my 325 and i can't stand it. i always end up stopping further than i would in my camry without abs
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post #5 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 3:38 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad
It's proven that ABS causes longer braking distances for the experienced driver. If you know how to properly brake under adverse conditions, I recommend that you turn it off completely. If you are the guy that just hammers on the brakes regardless of conditions... well... you're screwed either way.
I'd like to see the report. Till then, I don't believe it.

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post #6 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 3:42 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro
I'd like to see the report. Till then, I don't believe it.

that is because his 1300 has ABS

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post #7 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 3:43 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro
I'd like to see the report. Till then, I don't believe it.
It's true on dry pavement. I can stop a car faster w/o ABS than with. Wet/snow is a bit more challanging, but can still be done.
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post #8 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 3:50 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro
I'd like to see the report. Till then, I don't believe it.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp...bs2_e.htm#stop
http://www.safety-council.org/quiz/absa.htm

I've read quite a few articles on the subject... just a matter of re-finding them to post links here. I'll add a few more as they are googled.

[edit: The links I am finding claim it is about the same although I have seen the test (and with my own eyes) where the distance is somewhat shorter - even on dry pavement. Remember, my qualification is that an EXPERIENCED driver does the braking. Most ABS tests are "What happens if we both slam on the brakes."]

Also... one last point, the fastest braking on snow, gravel or slush is actually done with the car sideways. Yeah... ok, you guys from Ohio don't try this, I've seen you drive in snow, but for the rest of the snow-drivers, getting it sideways isn't such a bad thing if it's controlled. Anyone wanna drive with me? I'll show ya!

Jordan H.
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Last edited by nomad; 02-11-2004 at 3:58 PM.
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post #9 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 3:54 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND4SPD
It's true on dry pavement. I can stop a car faster w/o ABS than with. Wet/snow is a bit more challanging, but can still be done.
I think Conq needs to snoop this one. BTW, What were to peramiters of the tests you performed? Also, how many times did you repeat it and was the outcome the same on all tests? What were the temps that day? Do you have a copy of the sumitted reports? How close were the readings between ABS and NON ABS in the snow? Were they the same in the wet?

One more thing. I hate "Seat of the Pants" Dynos.

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post #10 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 3:56 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Thanks Nomad, looks like I have some reading to do.

Just read it. No info there.

Ride Red

Last edited by nedro; 02-11-2004 at 3:58 PM.
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post #11 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 4:06 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Blah. I'm having trouble finding the study in which it compares the distances. However, the theory goes like this.

If a driver hits the brakes and triggers ABS, for each pulse, there is a finite distance in which the wheel travels. These distances add up to be a non-trivial amount.
For a GOOD driver to brake, they can feel when/if the wheel is going to slip and adjust accordingly so that maximum braking is being appied at all times.
In theory, a perfect driver can out brake ABS, in reality the GOOD driver can outbrake ABS but not by huge amounts.

** Caveat... in the snow/gravel/slush even mediocre drivers can outperform ABS.

Also, realise that in most of these tests they are comparing "just jamming on the brakes" and not other brake mechanisms like down-shifting or pumping the brakes etc.

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post #12 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 4:11 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro
I think Conq needs to snoop this one. BTW, What were to peramiters of the tests you performed? Also, how many times did you repeat it and was the outcome the same on all tests? What were the temps that day? Do you have a copy of the sumitted reports? How close were the readings between ABS and NON ABS in the snow? Were they the same in the wet?

One more thing. I hate "Seat of the Pants" Dynos.
Data? I have no data besides personal experience. It was enough to convince me, I didn't need someone else to tell me.
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post #13 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 4:30 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Phew.....
I thought it was just my cars brakes were messed up my 525i.
Id be rolling into a parking spot and hit the brakes as there was a small hole or ditch, on the pavement and ABS kicks in. Freakin me out cuz Im going slow. After further investigation, this is normal and they are just doing what supposed to do, if one tire slips while others spinning reguardless of speed, ABS kicks in. I just hate that pulsating feeling, you can feel it.
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post #14 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 4:36 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

Wow... how do you get a good drift going if ABS is kicking off all the time?!

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post #15 of 29 Old 02-11-2004, 5:12 PM
 
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Re: ABS...getting too good?

One of the things that modern ABS systems does very well is let you steer while you emergencybrake. An average driver WILL step on the pedal and lock the wheels in an emergency.. Locked wheels will not steer, and I believe this makes the ABS a very good safety system even if it might make the distance to stop slightly longer under some conditions.

An ABS system which "regulates" without having momentarily locked/nearly locked one of the wheels (like when aproaching a stop sign on a dry paved road) could have a faulty sensor. This could tell the ECU that one of the wheels rotates slower than the rest, and will release the pressure on the brake fluid on that wheel. This is what happens when you feel the pedal pulsating.

I consider myself a normal driver with lot's of driving experience (because it's FUN) but I know from driving courses that I can not do better than ABS and other stability systems like ESP in some situations.


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Last edited by Fire929blade; 02-11-2004 at 5:13 PM.
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