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post #1 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

The NSA's warrantless wiretapping program has been declared unconstitutional in US District Court, and the court ordered an immediate halt to it.



Judge rebukes wiretap program - U.S. Security - MSNBC.com

What I want to know is, how would you know if they stopped or not?

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post #2 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:15 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

How would you know they aren't tapping your wireless internet....

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post #3 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:17 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Do you actually think that a court can stop this?

The Govt will do what they want to do.

It's amazing how stupid some people can be.
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post #4 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:18 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Thank god. We certainly wouldn't want to interfere with any innocent terrorist's plot to kill us. Thanks ACLU.
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post #5 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by ttkarp View Post
Thank god. We certainly wouldn't want to interfere with any innocent terrorist's plot to kill us. Thanks ACLU.
You need to understand how FISA works before you start spewing crap like that. This does not stop wiretapping of terrorists. This stops routine wiretapping of US citizens, which is a violation of the 4th ammendment.
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post #6 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:34 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Yep, and wiretapping innocent American civilians is exactly what the government was doing.

Pretty funny when one of the FISA judges that helped write the legislation stated it was perfectly legal.
But once that great and wonderous ACLU gets involved and starts shopping their case around, they're sure to find a leftist activist judge. Pretty much have them on speed dial.
But yeah, now that evil program of tapping innocent Americans can stop, because EVERYONE that knows ANYTHING knows that is exactly who was being targeted.
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post #7 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by BDA116 View Post
But yeah, now that evil program of tapping innocent Americans can stop, because EVERYONE that knows ANYTHING knows that is exactly who was being targeted.
I don't know that, and you don't know that. So we can just stop that argument right now. Are they tapping my phone? Probably not, unless they want to make sure I am spilling my guts out to China (my TS/SCI clearance SSBI is up for renewal).

What this does is clearly define the legality of warrantless wiretapping. Will the NSA continue to do it? Who knows. But this sets the precedent. If you want to listen in to a citizen, you MUST get judicial approval as allowed under FISA. FISA even includes an "After the fact" clause where the government can get a warrant after the wiretapping has started. There was no reason for the government to start this program.

Quote:
Yep, and wiretapping innocent American civilians is exactly what the government was doing.
Actually, this was EXACTLY what the government was doing. We are Innocent until proven guilty. They were peforming wiretaps on civilians without warrants. What else would you call this?
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post #8 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:48 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Most of us already know what the FISA court is for, but thanks.

And they were wiretapping phone calls originating from terrorists into the United States. I would call that perfectly acceptable.

If that's not an appropriate use of the system, nothing is.

No warrants should ever be served on anyone, as they are all gross violations of the 4th. Since all are innocent until proven guilty, they should not be trampled on with some warrant, whether issued before or after the fact.
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post #9 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 9:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

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Originally Posted by BDA116 View Post
Most of us already know what the FISA court is for, but thanks.
Hmmm... some people don't seem to... read ttkarp's post just a few above this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDA116
And they were wiretapping phone calls originating from terrorists into the United States. I would call that perfectly acceptable.

If that's not an appropriate use of the system, nothing is.
Actually, that's not what has happening. The NSA was wiretapping calls between citizens and overseas destinations. Oh, and while we are at it, please define what makes someone a 'Terrorist'. Oh, that's right, there isn't one. Quite the slippery legal slope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDA116
No warrants should ever be served on anyone, as they are all gross violations of the 4th. Since all are innocent until proven guilty, they should not be trampled on with some warrant, whether issued before or after the fact.
Um.... OK, I guess the train just jumped the track here. The 4th ammendment states:

Quote:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
So, if the government has probable cause to think someone bears watching or needs to seize property for evidence, they go to a judge, who reviews the information impartially and decides to issue the search warrant. This is prevent unchecked police power. There is nothing wrong with a warrant being served if the judicial branch agrees with the executive branch that there is probable cause. That's what this whole argument is about. The executive branch cannot start its own vendetta unchecked. This is one of the keystones of the checks and balances system.
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post #10 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 10:03 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Yes, we can all now rest peacefully again, as the Perfect Knowledge has again shown itself.

A terrorist IS very much defineable.
And actually, that IS what is happening. I know you have the directors at the NSA on speed dial and know all about the entire organization, but the fact remains that they WERE tapping conversations from known terrorists to the United States. The calls were originating from overseas.
That is a well documented fact.
Anything else you want to make up and pass of as Perfect Knowledge?

And thank you for completely backing my point with your latest discourse on the obvious.
Now read it again for yourself.
They WERE using the FISA system appropriately, as stated by a sitting FISA judge as well as one that was sitting when he helped pen the legislation.
But what do they know anyway. They do not hold the Perfect Knowledge powers.

And since you hold all knowledge, tell us what exactly the check is on activist judges that make judgements against what others had previously made?
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post #11 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 10:07 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional


Must obey the sheep dog
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post #12 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 10:16 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Actually, I have a great distain for the ACLU for wasting lots of time and money on silly lawsuits. However, I do believe this is an appropriate lawsuit.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin - A hero of mine.
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post #13 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 10:40 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepofblue View Post
No popcorn necessary, sheeply.
My mind has now been changed and I have seen the light. From now on, I will always trust the opinion of coastal nobodies over the facts distributed by those that run the programs and judges that have already passed judgement on them. Never again shall I question.

Man, this is just too damned easy. Actually to the point of boredom anymore.
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post #14 of 57 Old 08-17-2006, 11:07 PM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDA116 View Post
No popcorn necessary, sheeply.
My mind has now been changed and I have seen the light. From now on, I will always trust the opinion of coastal nobodies over the facts distributed by those that run the programs and judges that have already passed judgement on them. Never again shall I question.

Man, this is just too damned easy. Actually to the point of boredom anymore.
Actually this one is to easy and the popcorn is for watching.

Must obey the sheep dog
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post #15 of 57 Old 08-18-2006, 2:47 AM
 
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Re: NSA Wiretapping Declared Unconstitutional

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDA116 View Post
Man, this is just too damned easy. Actually to the point of boredom anymore.
It is actually. The Constitution, with unmatched brevity and endurance laid down the longest lasting democracy in the world.

When that document is defended in court, especially against the policy of the Pres, any citizen who has read, understands the intent of, and believes in that document should be standing up and applauding.

This was a great day for democracy and the Constitution.

Slowly we undo all the overreaction of 9-11, and the fact our system allows for this to happen quickly, and bloodlessly, even against the wishes of the President, is what makes our country great. Gotta love that little bit about checks and balances...




Last edited by luvtolean; 08-18-2006 at 2:53 AM.
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