Let us try democratic capitalism... - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Politics Discussion of Politics. Heated discussions are expected with this subject matter. If you don't have a thick skin, stay away. If you would like to block posts from this forum, see here.

User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 5 Old 05-24-2007, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 11-14-2005
Posts: 2,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
   
Let us try democratic capitalism...

Do any of you know what democratic capitalism is, and would you like to see it happen in the US?
analogbear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 5 Old 05-24-2007, 3:00 AM
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-26-2002
Location: Oxford UK
Posts: 1,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 23
         
Re: Let us try democratic capitalism...

Must confess to having to look up a definition. But according to Wikipedia:

"The United States is notable in using Democratic Capitalism as its economic-political system"
Proto is offline  
post #3 of 5 Old 05-24-2007, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 11-14-2005
Posts: 2,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
   
Re: Let us try democratic capitalism...

Do you think an aconimic system should be a poitical system? Isn't that what we had before? Where the sovereign had the political power AND the economic power, because all of the economic power was tied up in the crown. We defeated that idea with democracy, which is a diversification of political power, based on the consent principle, and removing "birthright" from the "power" equation...But, around 1890 or so in the US, a whole new kind of power arose: Economic Power seperate and distinct from the political sphere...After that, we now have a kind of power that impacts the individual far greater than the political sphere (with its glacial speed, agendas, search for consensus, etc) with employment issues, survival, access to education, healthcare, retirement, etc...

The problem is that in our version of capitalism, we have no democracy, democracy in this sense being the diversification of economic powe according to the consent of the governed...Where talent, not birthright, given an equal opportunity to flourish, will create success.

What we have now is a system of property/wealth that exists in near perpetuity, and an economic and social system where birthright and bloodline are the most accurate predictors of economic success; and, because there is no need to be talented if you are born rich, the idea of a "meritocracy" is a joke.

Democratic capitalism, then, would force investment instruments to shift from voting-shares to mere bonds, to remove labor unions in most large corporate organizations and instead institute actual voting by the employees, and a host of other changes in the way business do business, and how we as a society treat the permanence of property, in an effort to diversify this relatively new, deeply influential type of power according to the democratic consent principle...
analogbear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 5 Old 05-24-2007, 1:14 PM
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-26-2002
Location: Oxford UK
Posts: 1,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 23
         
Re: Let us try democratic capitalism...

It has been argued that the rise of meritocracy leads to a less enlightened society. More social mobility for some perhpaps, but the dog eat dog attitude leads to great polarisation of wealth, with a resultant underclass.

The caring, sharing "lord of the manor" from days gone by, because of his secure position in society could afford, in all senses, to be magnanimous, generous even. To a degree.


Have aread of this:

The Rise of the Meritocracy by Michael Young

from review on amazon.com

Quote:
Even though Michael Young was clearly disturbed by the possibility of a society totally based on assigning educational & occupational positions to people based solely on "objective" indicators of merit -- mainly, IQ tests -- he nonetheless made a powerful case for why such a system could arise. Although he didn't credit Max Weber, Young's ideas about the rationalization of social life, based on ruthless means/ends assessments, clearly owe a huge debt to Weber. Young portrayed pre-WWII England as riven with class distinctions, with its economic & social institutions held back by the veneration of traditional elite privileges. Thus, his depiction of post 1959-England follows logically from his account of how various political parties and social movements championed replacing the old system with one that rewarded merit, not the legacies of birth. Most amazing to me is Young's prescient description of how a potent feminist movement arose in the 1960s & 70s to push for greater rewards to merit, regardless of gender. (Remember: he was writing in the late 1950s!) I highly recommend reading this book in conjunction with Jerome Karabel's book, The Chosen, which chronicles the growth of merit-based admissions policies at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, in response to the same forces that Young describes (Karabel does cite Young's book). Despite its age, this book is most assuredly NOT dated! However, readers unfamiliar with English social history in the 20th century will no doubt miss a lot of Young's subtle satire.
Amazon.com: The Rise of the Meritocracy (Classics in Organization and Management Series): Books: Michael Young
Proto is offline  
post #5 of 5 Old 05-24-2007, 2:51 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 11-14-2005
Posts: 2,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
   
Re: Let us try democratic capitalism...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
It has been argued that the rise of meritocracy leads to a less enlightened society. More social mobility for some perhpaps, but the dog eat dog attitude leads to great polarisation of wealth, with a resultant underclass.

The caring, sharing "lord of the manor" from days gone by, because of his secure position in society could afford, in all senses, to be magnanimous, generous even. To a degree.
What I was saying is not that we should attempt to adopt a strict meritocracy (I think I said that people are under the impression that we do live in a meritocracy, already) and it seems the adherence to strict meritocracy is like adopting the Platonic strata of the "medals."

Quite the contrary: I think that we need to diversify economic power and make people start from a position of equal opportunity, and then limit how "comfortable and shiftless" they can allow their children to become.
analogbear is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org > Other > Politics

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
A valid e-mail address is REQUIRED. You will not have access to any site features until you activate your account using the activation e-mail that is sent to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US is going to get us into an intergalactic war--former Canadian Minister of Defense CBRVFR Politics 8 11-27-2005 12:45 AM
Finland:Socialism---------->Capitalism ? luvtolean Politics 12 10-27-2005 11:55 AM
Election 2004: A referendum on the Democratic Platform? Baketech Politics 32 11-04-2004 9:51 AM
2004 Democratic Convention Agenda ConqSoft Politics 5 07-18-2004 5:37 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome