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post #1 of 10 Old 07-02-2007, 9:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

I don't agree with the move, as the penalty is within the guidelines and so presumptively reasonable, but by commuting the sentence, he (Bush) leaves the fine, etc. in place...I dunno...
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post #2 of 10 Old 07-03-2007, 11:43 AM
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

What do I think? I think history will show that the current Bush administration is/was the worst in our history. Bush, Cheney and their cabal should be put on trial for TREASON...or better yet, put them on trial in the world court (The Hague) for crimes against humanity.

They all make me wanna puke!
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post #3 of 10 Old 07-03-2007, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

I know what you mean. I am not happy with the move, and what is a fine like that going to do to a rich dude like LL? Nothing. There has to be a penalty for being found guilty; and for $ to be the only real sanction to the rich doesn't levy any kind of punitive component to the sentence. I am not sure they could be tried for treason, as they are the duly-elected representatives of the nation; and we are not subject to the ICC in the Hague...Understand that the procedure would (in shortened form) be to have the UN Security Council (of which we are a permanent member with veto-authority)appoint a prosecutor, then to gather some evidence, then for the Court to approach the US authorities and ask them if they would prosecute the whole affair...If not, were we a nation beholden to the agreement (which we are not), the accused could then be tried in The Hague by the international community. However, as we are not subject to the authority if the ICC (Bush said NO after Clinton said yes), and even if we were, we have the veto power in the security council, seated by an ambassador to the UN appointed by the Bush administration, so it would never get that far.

I agree that this administration will go down in history as a terrible one, but I am not sure we can ever say something is the worst, when our view of history is so brief, narrow, and shallow.

I want to puke too.
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post #4 of 10 Old 07-03-2007, 12:54 PM
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

Bush made a mistake. President Madison described this as an impeachable offense.

The following is from a report written and released by the Judiciary Committee in 1974 in the aftermath of the Watergate crisis:

In the Constitutional convention George Mason argued that the President might use his pardoning power to "pardon crimes which were advised by himself" or, before indictment or conviction, "to stop inquiry and prevent detection." James Madison responded:

If the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty...

Madison went on to say contrary to his position in the Philadelphia convention, that the President could be suspended when suspected, and his powers would devolve on the Vice President, who could likewise be suspended until impeached and convicted, if he were also suspected.
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post #5 of 10 Old 07-03-2007, 2:57 PM
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

The move showed horrendously bad judgement on W's part. Then again, why should that surprize anyone?
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post #6 of 10 Old 07-03-2007, 4:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

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Originally Posted by steingar View Post
The move showed horrendously bad judgement on W's part. Then again, why should that surprize anyone?
Roger that...If nothing else, W should go down in history as the dumbest prez who thought he was smart...I see that little smirk when he is talking to the press, especially those serious journalists who are both savvy and smart, and I start to tremble...I don't know if I am going to hit something out of rage, or laugh at his stupidity...Then I think about a law school classmate of mine, who gave up a great internship and his whole second (I think) year to join the Marine Corps...He was killed in Iraq for No F-ing Reason...

Scooter should do time, and Bush really dropped the ball with this...At least his immediate predecessors had the wisdom to extend their pardons ONLY on their last day in office...
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post #7 of 10 Old 07-06-2007, 1:16 AM
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Fishboy View Post
What do I think? I think history will show that the current Bush administration is/was the worst in our history. Bush, Cheney and their cabal should be put on trial for TREASON...or better yet, put them on trial in the world court (The Hague) for crimes against humanity.

They all make me wanna puke!
Dude, where were you about a year and a half ago when I said this same thing and got blasted for it? Glad you are speaking up now. I guess the Bush lovers who used to frequent here are keeping their mouths shut since their boy keeps ****ing up.

G.W.'s administration will hopefully go down as the worst and most corrupt ever. I just fear that we may see worse in the future. I agree with Analog that I don't thing G.W. can be tried for treason but he could be tried by the world court for War crimes and crimes against humanity. But ****, we are supposed to have checks and balances, in this country, to keep **** nuts like Bush from running amuck. We are in a world of hurt if our legislative and judicial branch aren't willing to rein in this asshole. And for the new congress and Senate not to impeach Bush pretty much says to me that they are all in on it.

As for Scooter. Shitty but expected. Scooter takes the fall for Bush and now Bush is rewarding him. And the republicans keep mentioning Clinton's pardons on the last day his term. That was years ago so why do they keep bringing it up? Because they can't justify Bush's actions and have no argument. So they use diversion to throw people off track from the topic at hand. And that topic is: Bush approved the release of Valerie Plames CIA status to stop the derailment of his plans for war. Scooter lied to the Grand Jury about what he knew and when he knew it to protect Bush and his cronies. Scooter's sentence get commuted by Bush and that's where we are.
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post #8 of 10 Old 07-06-2007, 2:14 AM
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

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Originally Posted by jaim View Post
Dude, where were you about a year and a half ago when I said this same thing and got blasted for it? Glad you are speaking up now. I guess the Bush lovers who used to frequent here are keeping their mouths shut since their boy keeps ****ing up.
Hey j,

I've been railing against Schrub since he & his cabal stole they 2000 election. If you know anything about GW Bush, you know that he fails at everything he touches. If it weren't for his family connections, he'd be nothing. He's been in over his head since day one.

I was one of those who never believed Iraq was a good idea in any way, shape or form. I stopped arguing w/ Bush supporters long ago because they refuse to see the truth about this administration. I was kicked off a board back in '02 in the run up to the war for saying Bush and his people were lying about Iraq amongst other things. I stopped because I too was being hammered for my views. Of course this was when Bush and his people were saying that anyone who disagreed with them was a "traitor" "giving comfort to the enemy" "unpatriotic"...and those were the pleasant ones.
It blows my mind that there still 25% or so who are still buying into the lies.

The comparisons to Clinton are a JOKE!...As you said, Bush commuted the sentence of someone within his own admin., who was convicted of lying to a grand jury to protect the CRIMINAL actions of the President and V.P.
Clinton never did anything close.

Yes, there may be a worse Prez in the future, but he, or she, will have to try REALLY hard to top these bastards.

Peace
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post #9 of 10 Old 07-06-2007, 8:25 PM
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

Since you got me going...As far as the war goes...I'd like to point out is that even if you were in full support of the war in Iraq, how can you forgive the fact the Bush admin. sent our soliders to war w/o proper body armor or w/o the armored vehicles needed. Nor did they listen when they were told by generals that they needed several hundred thousand more troops to have any chance of success (instead they fired those generals!).
Or the lack of planning?...they had NO plan to secure the borders, or to secure the vast amounts of munitions that are now killings our troops.
Everything they set out to do has gone horribly wrong...and mostly due to their own incompetence. The ONLY thing they have done successfully is to make BILLIONS of dollars for their friends like Haliburton, KBR and the like, make countries like Iran stronger. And to inspire more hatred of America around the world.

America has paid a terrible price becuase of the LIES & incompetence of this admin.

The Bush/Neocon actions been a giant recruiting poster for terrorists around the world.

Impeachment would be a mild punishment in my mind.

OK, I'm done.

Last edited by Fishboy; 07-06-2007 at 8:31 PM.
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post #10 of 10 Old 07-08-2007, 4:11 AM
 
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Re: Scooter...Bush...What do you think?

Yeah, don't even get me going on the "war" in Iraq. It isn't even a war. Congress is the only body in our government that can declare a war and this congress seems to be afraid to remind the president of that.
What is/has been going on in Iraq is criminal. And if investigated, I am sure many in the Bush administration would be charged with crimes of one sort or another. But then who would judge the cases?... More Bush cronies.


I work with a lot of foreign folks who legally immigrated to this country. And I can tell you they are sorely disappointed with the way this country is going. They see us going the same way their countries have been. Getting more and more corrupt and no one is being brought to bear for it. We do have a chance to turn it around but it is going to take a lot of people making a lot of effort. And I think, we as a country, have lost the will to stand up for what is right.
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