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post #1 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
 
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Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

So as President Obama announces he will be closing Gitmo, what are your thoughts?
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post #2 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 12:34 PM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

Good question dr. Absolutely stupid and may not even happen. What do you do with 250 some odd criminals? You can argue some are not and maybe true in a very small amount of cases.
Release them into the public? They'll come back to kill again with even more of a vengence now.
Allow them access to American lawyers? That would be a costly circus and in the end most would be released because of the lack of solid evidence. They would all walk like OJ.
I don't think there's a whole lot of choice. Keep them where they are. Would you want them in your neighbourhood? I also understand Obama is exploring other options now because the reality is setting in.
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post #3 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 12:34 PM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

He will close it. In the greater picture, it is a bone he needs to throw to satisfy the extreme left.

"Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici"
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post #4 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

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Originally Posted by FB1000inPA View Post
He will close it. In the greater picture, it is a bone he needs to throw to satisfy the extreme left.
I would have thought the bone is being thrown to governments overseas more than the left in the US. Several of which, including my own Prime Minister have sent official complaints, which is actually highly unusual these days. But seeing as there are currently three or four British citizens in their without charge hardly surprising.

Denzee raises valid points about what the hell you are going to do with the detainees. Send them home and they talk to the international press like their lives depended on it. Keep them there and the bad press continues anyway.

Personally I'd tell George W that we've gifted him a new ranch for his retirement and slam the door shut!
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post #5 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 12:53 PM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

right. that's why everyone in Prison's over her is innocent... we've got the wrong man...

There's a reason they're in there. maybe minute or maybe it's their associations or actions they should have paid closer attention too. but there is a reason.

I'm torn on closing it... i mean i don't want to be mean to anyone, but they're terrorists in there... maybe if we let them go, they won't hurt anyone anymore where's the "Dripping with sarcasm" smilie?
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post #6 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 1:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

Jennis - even the English guy they released last year after four years without trial and no charges or even alleged offences before during or after his capture?

The dripping with Sarcasm smile is being held at Gitmo!!!
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post #7 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 1:07 PM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

yep. even him!!! honestly. i haven't read every article out on gitmo. but i fail to see how detaining terrorists is a bad thing... for any country. I'm not supporting the false imprissonment of anyone from any country. I'm just saying that there's a reason. Suspicion is usually bread out of truth.
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post #8 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 2:08 PM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

So close it. No big deal. It's better for the CIA and military because they can extract informations better from suspects on foreign soils anyway.

Why are folks so fixated on Gitmo and ignore the fact that this is constantly going on anywhere on earth?

Come on folks. It has to be done to protect the US and friendly countries from attacks of any kind.

"Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici"
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post #9 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 3:30 PM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

Come on FB...give them another chance. Especially if they give their word on it. No more violence. They can all go live in Berkeley California.
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post #10 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 3:48 PM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

Yep, liked your post.

"Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici"
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post #11 of 29 Old 11-18-2008, 10:08 PM
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

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Originally Posted by denzee View Post
Come on FB...give them another chance. Especially if they give their word on it. No more violence. They can all go live in Berkeley California.
How about they share room with Obama supporters. Up for it Nedro? Are you ready for change?
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post #12 of 29 Old 11-19-2008, 7:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

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Originally Posted by Trimmed_Jennis View Post
yep. even him!!! honestly. i haven't read every article out on gitmo. but i fail to see how detaining terrorists is a bad thing... for any country. I'm not supporting the false imprissonment of anyone from any country. I'm just saying that there's a reason.
Your not supporting false imprisonment but you advocate in the same sentence that even the innocent man is a terrorist by the mere fact that he's in there. If that's the case then why were there no charges, no trial? By releasing him without any further investigation the american military are admitting that there was in fact no reason for him to be there other than false imprisonment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimmed_Jennis View Post
Suspicion is usually bread out of truth.
So if I suspect you are a terrorist that must be then born out of truth?
This is exactly the sort of thing they used to use to burn witches in the middle ages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FB1000inPA View Post
So close it. No big deal. It's better for the CIA and military because they can extract informations better from suspects on foreign soils anyway.
Aka you can torture them. Which is what the US does with it's alliance with Egypt anyway.
It's interesting that you feel Gitmo is no big deal. For many countries Gitmo has been the symbol of american arrogance. By placing itself above international law your government has made a mockery of the very freedoms it claims to promote.

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How about they share room with Obama supporters. Up for it Nedro? Are you ready for change?
Really they inmates should be all coming to Republican houses, after all it's the right of america that believes Gitmo should stay open for business.

Now don't get me wrong here people, there is no denying that some of the facilities inmates are indeed extremely dangerous. There is also no denying that some of them are entirely innocent. So for those who fulfill the first category it's absolutely right that they are held in such as manner as to deny any chance of carrying out their acts violence etc.
But...
The way in which Gitmo has been run and in particular the holding without trial, in some cases for over seven years, has lead to the damnation of your fair country by almost every one of the worlds leaders. Including your biggest ally the UK.
It's entirely correct that Gitmo closes, but the inmates must either receive a trial and be sentenced or be released.
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post #13 of 29 Old 11-19-2008, 9:13 AM
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

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Aka you can torture them. Which is what the US does with it's alliance with Egypt anyway. It's interesting that you feel Gitmo is no big deal. For many countries Gitmo has been the symbol of american arrogance. By placing itself above international law your government has made a mockery of the very freedoms it claims to promote.
Why? Because it was out in the open and everybody was able to look at it?

What about the British? Do you think they are not involved in torture? The only difference is that it wasn't reported where, when and who in the Sun or any other paper.

Come on already. Don't be naive.

"Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici"
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post #14 of 29 Old 11-19-2008, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

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Why? Because it was out in the open and everybody was able to look at it?
No. Because it breaks International Law. Because it breaks the Geneva convention. Because in eight or so years only one person has been brought to trial. Because its outside the US constitution, allowing detainees to be tortured off american soil and also therefore by-passes any american law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FB1000inPA View Post
What about the British? Do you think they are not involved in torture? The only difference is that it wasn't reported where, when and who in the Sun or any other paper.
Actually the UKs complicity in allowing US transporters planes to fly over UK soil taking Guantanamo detainees to egypt to be tortured was widely reported in the UK media. Its how we know the US was taking prisoners to be tortured in the first place.
Our troops have also, as you suggest, been accused of torturing Iraqi prisoners in Iraqi jails. The only difference where is our lads were smart enough not to take as many pictures.
The problem with all this is it has since been discovered that some of the intelligence gathered in egypt has since been used to further the case for stronger anti terror legislation. And we all know how reliable information gained through torture is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FB1000inPA View Post
Come on already. Don't be naive.
I think its you who are naive. Our government are running around doing what the hell they want in the name of protection. This is the prime reason given for Guantanamo. To protect you. It undeniable that some of the people in there are extremely dangerous. Fine give them a trial and sentence them. But its also undeniable that some are entirely innocent.
Meanwhile part of this protecting you comes in the form of Anti-Terror laws. Fine you say I've nothing to hide I'm no terrorist. Well under the new laws passed by the senate the moment you march against Obama's new gun laws you could be deemed so.
Take the new Patriot act. This allows any state body to enter your house while you not there or while you are for that matter, without a warrant, and search any aspect of your private belongings.
It allows any state body to access your bank account, your credit cards your emails even to track you as you move around the net. Again without a warrant or even telling or charging you.
It allows any state body to tap your phone, bug your house, your car and your office, to access your medical records, your insurance anything...all without a warrant, telling you why they want the information or even telling you they accessed it.
Again I here you say but I'm not a terrorist.
Well any state body also means the local copper who doesn't like you because you ride a bike...Rosco Peeko Train Sherriff now has the power to find out everything about you. Without having to bring charges, make an arrest or even declare why he's accessing the info. Buddy you just better hope you didn't do his daughter!

Your government has just turned the whole of America into Guantanmo Bay. Think this is BS?
Well since 9/11 the FBI has arrested over 2000 people in relation to events on that tragic day. Thus far only 2 have been charged. No figures are available as to how many have been released or how many are still in custody.

If you think protecting OUR freedom is naive. Then I'll take it as a compliment.
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post #15 of 29 Old 11-19-2008, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Guantanamo Bay - Had it's day?

I need a tumbleweed smilie!
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