Five (5) year rule? - Page 4 - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #46 of 77 Old 05-24-2005, 5:45 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
Sorry where was that, I must have missed it.

There doesn't seem to be any such requirement in the UK, AFAICT trackday organisers only require a BSI/CE/ACU sticker and that the helmet is in good condition.

<Devil's advocate> are the track organisations in the US basing their 5-year regulation on anything other than the manufacturers' recommendations?
They base them on experience. All crashed helmets in several organizations are dissected or returned to the manufacturer for evaluation. Snell even does crashed helmet evaluations. Statistics have shown older helmets don't fair as well in high speed crashes and since the mid 80's most racing organizations have enforced the 5 year rule.
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post #47 of 77 Old 05-24-2005, 6:28 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Here's a question for ya. Not that it has to do with safety, but what is the track day reality? Has anyone ever had their helmet strap inspected at a track day for the date stamp? I've done 41 of them with four different organizations, and never once have I seen this inspection done as a regular course of business. I'm not talking races, but just track days.
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post #48 of 77 Old 05-24-2005, 7:38 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
Here's a question for ya. Not that it has to do with safety, but what is the track day reality? Has anyone ever had their helmet strap inspected at a track day for the date stamp? I've done 41 of them with four different organizations, and never once have I seen this inspection done as a regular course of business. I'm not talking races, but just track days.
Trackoholics checks every date and Snell sticker every time.

Oh and just because someone doesn't check the manufacturing date, that doesn't mean your 7 year old helmet will work any better. We aren't talking rocket science here. Why would you want to take a chance on one of the things you actually CAN control about riding a motorcycle?

Last edited by abtech; 05-24-2005 at 7:41 PM.
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post #49 of 77 Old 05-24-2005, 8:50 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Duh! That's why I said my comment did not address safety, because I was looking to avert the unneeded editorializing and just get a question answered.

With that out of the way, is there anyone who has attended at Trackoholics track day that will confirm this? Have any of you ever attended a Trackoholics track day where they did not inpect your helmet?
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post #50 of 77 Old 05-24-2005, 10:18 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

I believe Abtech is very familiar with them. Also I realize you did not want to editorialize but his point hopefully negates the need for an answer.

Must obey the sheep dog
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post #51 of 77 Old 05-25-2005, 12:27 AM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

I think it's a valid question. My question is how many track day orgs are checking this. The answer so far, one.
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post #52 of 77 Old 05-25-2005, 8:08 AM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
I think it's a valid question. My question is how many track day orgs are checking this. The answer so far, one.
And the only one I am familiar with as an instructor.

I can say for certain that STT hasn't ever verified I even "have" a helmet. CCS, WERA and GLRRA all were pretty consistent with checking for age and certs at every round. WERA uses the AFM technique with helmet stickers, but still require a visual inspection at each event.
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post #53 of 77 Old 05-25-2005, 8:12 AM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
Here's a question for ya. Not that it has to do with safety, but what is the track day reality? Has anyone ever had their helmet strap inspected at a track day for the date stamp? I've done 41 of them with four different organizations, and never once have I seen this inspection done as a regular course of business. I'm not talking races, but just track days.
At the track days I've attended in Loudon, NH I haven't seen them check anyone's helmet date stamp, including mine.
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post #54 of 77 Old 05-25-2005, 9:37 AM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abtech
They base them on experience. All crashed helmets in several organizations are dissected or returned to the manufacturer for evaluation. Snell even does crashed helmet evaluations. Statistics have shown older helmets don't fair as well in high speed crashes and since the mid 80's most racing organizations have enforced the 5 year rule.
So they're basing the rule on experience gained prior to the mid-80's?
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post #55 of 77 Old 05-25-2005, 12:25 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
So they're basing the rule on experience gained prior to the mid-80's?
You just don't give up do you. The race organizations test crashed helmets on an ongoing basis and have since the early 80s.

Maybe if you took the time to search a bit on this wonderful thing known as the internet, you could find out some real information as opposed to what is apparently just your own opinion. The Wegman Fund, Rusty Bradley Memorial Fund, the FIM, AFM, AMA Racing and several regional outfits have lots of this information posted out there. You could also take a look at www.SMF.org for some actual facts about helmet integrity, resin aging and current testing procedures in place in this country.
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post #56 of 77 Old 05-25-2005, 2:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

And the rule is addressed there very clearly http://www.smf.org/faqs.html#10

Why replace helmet every five years?
The five year replacement recommendation is based on a consensus by both the helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation. Glues, resins and other materials used in helmet production over can affect liner materials. Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance. Additionally, experience indicates there will be a noticeable improvement in the protective characteristic of helmets over a five year period due to advances in materials, designs, production methods and the standards. Thus, the recommendation for five year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy.
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post #57 of 77 Old 05-26-2005, 10:40 AM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abtech
Maybe if you took the time to search a bit on this wonderful thing known as the internet, you could find out some real information as opposed to what is apparently just your own opinion. The Wegman Fund, Rusty Bradley Memorial Fund, the FIM, AFM, AMA Racing and several regional outfits have lots of this information posted out there. You could also take a look at www.SMF.org for some actual facts about helmet integrity, resin aging and current testing procedures in place in this country.
What I have written here on this subject is only my opinion and I am not claiming anything else.

I certainly have searched the internet for actual facts about this and found none, including on the sites you mentioned. The nearest I found was this on the Snell site:
http://www.smf.org/headsup/headsup25.html
See the section "replacing your helmet" by Ed Hunter.
Apparently he has done some actual testing on used helmets, but sadly does not publish the detailed results. He says he'd tested 26 used helmets of various ages, the oldest must have been 30+ years old. Some were Snell-certified and some weren't. No allowance was made for condition or what treatment they'd received. More than half were found to still pass the Snell standard that was in force when they were new. Without seeing the data there are numerous unanswered questions - had the older helmets degraded more, had the ones that failed been dropped or crashed etc.

I'd love to read some genuine research into how much less protection a 6-year-old helmet gives than a 4-year-old or new one. However until someone finds any such publication I guess we're stuck with exchanging opinions.
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post #58 of 77 Old 05-26-2005, 12:06 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

Well based on that information alone, I would say that a helmet that meets the 1990 standard and is 6 years old certainly might NOT meet the current (M2000/M2005) standard. Since the Snell Memorial foundation has a charter to make their standard a moving target (as opposed to DOT and a few other standards orgaizations), I would never use anything that wouldn't offer at least the current maximum amount of available protection.

Why purchase a $10,000.00 motorcycle with the latest technology and then effectively roll the dice with something as important as a helmet? His article clearly states that only half met the ORIGINAL standard which in the case of Snell changes upward every 5 years to help push the technology towards safer and better helmets.
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post #59 of 77 Old 05-26-2005, 1:30 PM
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

And before you try to save a buck on a helmet read the article from JohnnyCrash and ask what his Shoei is worth Do what you want, we all cut corners but I don't have a bargain head

Must obey the sheep dog
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post #60 of 77 Old 05-26-2005, 5:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Five (5) year rule?

That was my final conclusion too. FedEx says my X11 should arrive today.
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