F4i not starting after Clutch repair! - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 13 Old 04-02-2016, 7:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

Hey guys, I just changed out all of the clutch plates on my '01 F4i as my clutch was slipping, But not my bike wont turn over. Its not kicking any error codes and i cant start it in gear or neutral. I think i put the pulse generator in correctly but I cant be sure as i'm having trouble seeing the correct orientation on the service manual. Another thing, No matter how i adjust my clutch cable (top or bottom) I cant get the rear tire to turn while in gear. in neutral it spins fine, any suggestions?
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-02-2016, 9:28 PM
 
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

No pickup sensor is moved when the clutch cover is moved off for service.
1. Cut side steels face the pressure plate.
2. Frictions have an ink stamping sometimes and this is more like the flat side too facing you, ie, the pressure plate.
3. There are 3 different frictions so are they placed correctly?
4. You have to roll and roll and roll the wheel so it finally freewheels in gear, lever pulled to the grip.
5. We have an air gap at the crank sensor pickup? Why was that tampered with if it's clutch work only?
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post #3 of 13 Old 04-02-2016, 10:16 PM
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighRisk View Post
Hey guys, I just changed out all of the clutch plates on my '01 F4i as my clutch was slipping, But not my bike wont turn over. Its not kicking any error codes and i cant start it in gear or neutral. I think i put the pulse generator in correctly but I cant be sure as i'm having trouble seeing the correct orientation on the service manual. Another thing, No matter how i adjust my clutch cable (top or bottom) I cant get the rear tire to turn while in gear. in neutral it spins fine, any suggestions?
Your not going to get the rear to spin by hand while in gear without the clutch pulled in. Also, I'm pretty sure the pulse generator pick up only bolts into the case cover one way, and there would be no reason for you to take it off the cover for cover removal. Just a click of the connector would solve that.

So, did you remove the pulse generator pick up from the clutch cover, or did you disconnect the connector and not re connect it?

Pic for your reference, the pick up sensor has to face the rotor tines (the Chinese star looking thing) which is keyed to the crankshaft, can only be positioned one way, and should not have been removed:



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post #4 of 13 Old 04-02-2016, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

I figure ill reply so other people can see what happened, as i had a hell of a time googling this xD. But Ian you were basically right, I had the sensor facing the rotor but i had it UPSIDE DOWN >.< i didn't realize the lines had to go underneath instead of on top. Also i diagnosed my problem with the clutch aswell, Sorry for my wording i've been up for a long time as i worked graveyard last night then decided to fix my bike . Anyways the problem i was having was that tire would not spin even with the clutch held in it was just extremely tight. I went back into the bike and found out why... My torque wrench was torquing it down 10 ft lbs more than i had it set to... I had all 5 bolts torqued to 19 ft lbs instead of 9.... This is where my new problem comes in. I was backing the bolts back to 9lbs when the head snapped off of one and the spring hit me in the face -.- But now i have the bolt stuck in my clutch with no way of removing it. I closed up the clutch cover for now, but I have no clue how im going to fix this :/ never had teh head of a bolt snap off this deep into something before, usually i can just dremel the top into a flathead and unscrew it.

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post #5 of 13 Old 04-03-2016, 12:17 AM
 
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

bummer. thats never an easy fix but with some patience you should be able to get it out. my first attempt usually involves a pointy punch used to grab a small catch where the bolt broke, looks like you might be able to get some bite on the bolt at about the 4 o'clock position in the pic. ill use a hammer and try to go straight in and put even more of a dent in the bolt for the punch to grab and then slowly n gently try to tap the bolt counter clockwise. it takes careful positioning and like i said plenty of patience, but ive been successful pulling broken bolts out like this several times. once its free enough to get a grip on your golden.

next option is carefully drill a small hole in the broken bolt and use an easy out. you can get them at any auto parts shop. again patience is key. you dont need to drill very deep but it needs to be centered best as you can and use the biggest drill bit you can but still leaving plenty of meat on the sides so you dont get into the threads as you drill. then you just use the easy out to hopefully get a grip n remove the bolt. be very careful not to chew up the threads with the drill. a center punch to get a good starting point is helpful to keep the drill bit from walking all over the uneven surface of the broken bolt.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/v...ntent=22987472

hopefully one of those two techniques will get it out. if you have much doubt about it id just recommend taking it in to a machine shop n letting them do it. itll cost more but its something they likely deal with fairly often. if you go in all willy nilly you can turn a bad situation into a worse one pretty easy and end up needing a whole new basket. but worse comes to worse its a fairly cheap used part on ebay...

03 Honda CBR600 F4 I CBR 600 F4i Clutch Basket Assembly | eBay

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Last edited by 954Kevin; 04-03-2016 at 12:25 AM.
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post #6 of 13 Old 04-03-2016, 3:30 AM
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

I can feel your pain, I've had two broken studs one I managed to get out the other I got an engineering company to remove, in that location I'd get some professional help or you're likely to do further damage, also check your torque wrench is calibrated correctly.

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post #7 of 13 Old 04-03-2016, 10:08 AM
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighRisk View Post
I figure ill reply so other people can see what happened, as i had a hell of a time googling this xD. But Ian you were basically right, I had the sensor facing the rotor but i had it UPSIDE DOWN >.< i didn't realize the lines had to go underneath instead of on top. Also i diagnosed my problem with the clutch aswell, Sorry for my wording i've been up for a long time as i worked graveyard last night then decided to fix my bike . Anyways the problem i was having was that tire would not spin even with the clutch held in it was just extremely tight. I went back into the bike and found out why... My torque wrench was torquing it down 10 ft lbs more than i had it set to... I had all 5 bolts torqued to 19 ft lbs instead of 9.... This is where my new problem comes in. I was backing the bolts back to 9lbs when the head snapped off of one and the spring hit me in the face -.- But now i have the bolt stuck in my clutch with no way of removing it. I closed up the clutch cover for now, but I have no clue how im going to fix this :/ never had teh head of a bolt snap off this deep into something before, usually i can just dremel the top into a flathead and unscrew it.

Dammit

At least you got both "issues" ironed out. Now it's time to get some sleep and attack this new problem with a fresh head

Quote:
Originally Posted by 954Kevin View Post
bummer. thats never an easy fix but with some patience you should be able to get it out. my first attempt usually involves a pointy punch used to grab a small catch where the bolt broke, looks like you might be able to get some bite on the bolt at about the 4 o'clock position in the pic. ill use a hammer and try to go straight in and put even more of a dent in the bolt for the punch to grab and then slowly n gently try to tap the bolt counter clockwise. it takes careful positioning and like i said plenty of patience, but ive been successful pulling broken bolts out like this several times. once its free enough to get a grip on your golden.

next option is carefully drill a small hole in the broken bolt and use an easy out. you can get them at any auto parts shop. again patience is key. you dont need to drill very deep but it needs to be centered best as you can and use the biggest drill bit you can but still leaving plenty of meat on the sides so you dont get into the threads as you drill. then you just use the easy out to hopefully get a grip n remove the bolt. be very careful not to chew up the threads with the drill. a center punch to get a good starting point is helpful to keep the drill bit from walking all over the uneven surface of the broken bolt.

Vermont American 5 Piece Spiral Flute Screw Extractor Set #1 - #5 - Carded VER21822: Advance Auto Parts

hopefully one of those two techniques will get it out. if you have much doubt about it id just recommend taking it in to a machine shop n letting them do it. itll cost more but its something they likely deal with fairly often. if you go in all willy nilly you can turn a bad situation into a worse one pretty easy and end up needing a whole new basket. but worse comes to worse its a fairly cheap used part on ebay...

03 Honda CBR600 F4 I CBR 600 F4i Clutch Basket Assembly | eBay



Great advice Kevin

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post #8 of 13 Old 04-04-2016, 1:59 PM
 
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

I hope it's not to early, but the visual of the spring slapping you in the kisser is too funny.
I've been warned to be careful with those bolts, it's easy to over-torque them.
When running them in, you have to tighten each one just a little and move to the next. Like tightening down a cylinder head except you have to alternate a lot more because you're compressing the springs as you tighten.
Good luck extracting that bolt, it may be a tough one, but you'll get it.
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post #9 of 13 Old 04-08-2016, 5:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

I ended up getting it out with a left handed drill bit was making the easy out hole and it caughtbthe bit and spun itself out.
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-08-2016, 7:23 PM
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighRisk View Post
I ended up getting it out with a left handed drill bit was making the easy out hole and it caughtbthe bit and spun itself out.
Success

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post #11 of 13 Old 04-08-2016, 8:44 PM
 
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighRisk View Post
I ended up getting it out with a left handed drill bit was making the easy out hole and it caughtbthe bit and spun itself out.
Word

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post #12 of 13 Old 04-09-2016, 2:55 AM
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

That was a proper bit of of luck!

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post #13 of 13 Old 04-27-2016, 1:53 PM
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Re: F4i not starting after Clutch repair!

To be fair, removing bolts that have snapped purely from overtightening is a hell of a lot easier than removing a bolt that corroded in place. If a left hand drill bit doesn't do the job, then an extractor (e.g. Easyout) has a very high chance of success, unlike when they are used on seized bolts and snap off leaving you even deeper in the sh1t.

However, over-tightening those bolts should not have prevented the clutch working. The bolt head seats on the pillars within the clutch basket, so no matter how tight you do them you can't compress the springs any further.
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