It's the charging question again - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 7 Old 07-31-2018, 2:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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It's the charging question again

HI there,

Apologies for this, as I know there are plenty of threads on this one already, but I just wanted some clarification on a few points if that is ok.

So I have now had this bike for just over 4 years, it's a 1994 CBR900RRR and by far the best bike I have ever owned, it's battered and tatty, but under the cosmetics, I keep it completely to process, in fact for the first time since I had it, it passed the MOT without even an advisory. Yet every year I have to replace the stator, I can tell when it is going as the speedo starts messing around. I have replaced it 4 times now each time with a 90 aftermarket one from Electrax, which they them selves admitted over the phone that they suffer from the heat. My take on it is that 90 a year is ok, but this time I would dearly like to make it last a little longer. The biggest issue is that living in London with the now 20mph speed limit everywhere, means that you just can't keep the temperature down in the summer, just can't get the air flow, and I get the impression that this fireblade can run kinda hot.

The last time it went, I found a genuine Fireblade stator from a breaker, and I it came with bullet connectors on instead of the usual 3 blade plug. Now these corroded through which is when I first noticed an issue, and when I spotted that I just cleaned up the wires and re did the connectors and it was fine so long as I rode without the lights on. I thought that 3 days riding around like that even in the stop start traffic lights of London that would be enough to fully charge the battery again. But the next time I put the lights on, riding back at night, again, the speedo started doing the funky charging system shake (To clarify, I have no reason for it to be the speedo, as it is simply not consistent enough to be the speedo sensor). So, I am now suspecting that this stator is now failing, due to age more than anything, but here is what it is putting out on a continuity test:

between any of the three windings, 0 ohms, full continuity.

Between each winding and earth:
first - 30.1 MΩ
second - 30.1 MΩ
third - 28.6 MΩ

I understand that the windings to earth should be ∞ Ω as in no current flowing at all between individual windings and earth.

So I am currently charging the battery with my charger, I believe it is conditioning the battery now as the battery measures 13.4V at the terminals off the bike, though I have not left it to rest yet, so am expecting it to go down a little from there, but I think a full 5 - 10 hour cycle might help. The battery is 4 years old mind, and when I checked it I did notice the volts dropping a little when I disconnected it from the charger, I assume it is a little like taking the top off a fizzy bottle though and that it will normalize within a few minutes of being disconnected. That aside, I think all you experts out there should have enough info to go on. Let me know if you need more and I will go and test something for you.

So the second question is, I have found a genuine Stator for this bike brand new at the costly price of 425, is it worth buying, considering a couple of things, firstly I will be moving out of central London fairly soon so won't be subject to constant 20mph commuting, but also considering the age of the rest of the wiring on the bike and the resistance within the wiring. Is this one more likely to last more than just the one year, as I have heard that aftermarket ones just aren't up to the mark?

Thanks in advance for help on this one.
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post #2 of 7 Old 07-31-2018, 2:48 PM
 
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Re: It's the charging question again

have you ever changed the regulator rectifier? it could be the reason your stator is going down
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post #3 of 7 Old 07-31-2018, 3:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: It's the charging question again

Yes I have changed the regulator rectifier, it was the first thing that ever got changed the first time the whole system failed on me. I also went to change it last time the Stator blew, however, the original one I had was not charging the battery at tickover, so I changed it back, as the electrax one firstly was charging the battery at about 13.7V at tickover, and also I kinda assumed that the finning on it would help keep the temperature down. I still have a genuine one, though I don't know if it is from a 94 or 95 fireblade, and as the stators changed in those years (95 one has a larger diameter hole in the middle I found out to my annoyace) I don't know how the currents and voltages compare if swapped about.

What could it be in the regulator rectifier that would cause the stator to fail?
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post #4 of 7 Old 07-31-2018, 4:36 PM
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Re: It's the charging question again

I don't think you have anything to worry about regarding leakage to earth. For starters ~30 MΩ is an extremely high resistance, so even if real the leakage current would be miniscule. A coil shorted to ground would show a resistance of maybe 1Ω or less.

I also don't think it's real since the leakage varies by 2MΩ between windings which is pretty much impossible. If one coil was shorted to ground, the maximum difference you would see would be the about the resistance of one coil (0.3Ω max for CBR900RR), and the average multimeter wouldn't be able to resolve 0.3Ω in a 30 MΩ measurement. I'm wondering if you were holding the probes onto the wires with your fingers, in which case you simply measured the resistance of your skin, which will vary depending on how tight you hold the probes etc.

Measure the resistance between each pair of wires with the multimeter set to the lowest resistance range. You should see the above 0.3Ω or less, plus the resistance of the test leads, and each pair should be very similar.
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post #5 of 7 Old 08-01-2018, 4:42 AM
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Re: It's the charging question again

Hi , have you thought about upgrading the wiring from the stator to the rec/reg, a bigger gauge could solve the overheating of the wires , or even a computer fan on the rec/reg to cool it , here's a couple of reference sheets
Motorcycle Loom Wire | custom wiring loom | motorcycle electrics
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cable...selection.html
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post #6 of 7 Old 08-01-2018, 7:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: It's the charging question again

Hi, Yes I have thought about that, unfortunately that overheating problem is not there, it is at the stator itself sitting in the oil. Where it sits on the end of the crank, it is bathed in the oil of the engine to cool it, but of course, the temperature gauge of an engine looks at the temperature of the coolant of which the constant temperature volatility is buffered. The temperature of the oil is subject to quite large changes in temperature, this causes the expansion rate of the resin that coats the stator to eventually breakdown so I understand. So I have only actually had one broken Regulator rectifier, the aftermarket ones of those are very well finned, and I cleaned the frame where it mounts and used thermal paste while mounting it, as a result, that part is ok. But I don't know what to do with the stator. The only thing I haven't done which you suggest is to upgrade the wire gauge, and I think that is extremely valid and worth doing. I shall certainly be looking into this so long as I can determine if it is in fact the stator that has failed on this occasion.
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post #7 of 7 Old 08-01-2018, 8:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: It's the charging question again

Hi guys, I appear to have fixed this so want to give feedback and thanks for your help, BenelliBlade, you were absolutely spot on, I had no idea that the resistance of a human from thumb tip to thumb tip was actually 30 MΩ. When checking properly, the stator is in perfect working order, with continuity between the windings and infinite resistance between each of them and earth.

Spagiratwink - it seems the wiring is in a shocking state, it is really stiff and quite corroded, though on this occasion I was able to clean it up sufficiently so that it was copper again and not a silvery washed out coloured copper. I will be upgrading this part of the wiring. As it happens, I replaced most of the entire loom some 4 years ago when I first got the bike, but that part had not been on the loom, so had to use the old bit of loom from my original one. I do my very best to do wiring properly as best I can, but getting the original connectors has eluded me. If anyone knows where you can get the original factory plugs and connectors, I'd be really interested, as I have no intention of getting rid of this bike, it just keeps going from strength to strength right now.

So what I now did, other than cleaning up the wiring again, was to fully charge and condition the battery, and after leaving it afterwards to settle over night, it had a stable voltage of 12.83V which I believe is healthy. On the bike the at tickover the voltage at the battery terminals showed 14V, I am hoping that is healthy too and not too high, but that was with no lights on.

Thanks for all your help guys.
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