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post #1 of 19 Old 05-03-2008, 6:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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08 R1 Clutch destruction

Hi fellas,

I'm helping my step son out rebuilding his clutch on his 08 R1 (with 1800 miles on it). Why so soon you might ask. Well, being a 20 year old, he's not the king of making wise decisions...eh hem, and he let one of his knucklehead friends take a ride on it. The guy evidently fancied himself as some stunt rider or something and does a massive burnout, dumping the clutch from redline. When he finished the bike would not move under its own power. Long story short, as I suspected, the clutch was toast.

Now for the part that I found strange (other than him letting someone other than himself ride his brand new bike): when I disassembled the clutch, the first thing I found was the pressure plate badly gaulded and then as I started removing friction plates and steel plates, I started finding debris lodged between them. The debris looked like melted aluminum. When I reached the 5th friction plate, the entire center of the plate (the functional surface with all the friction pads) was gone, completely melted away. The only thing left was a thin ring with the square ears around the perimeter. So what’s so strange to me about this is why only one plate, and why one of the middle plates? Why not the one closest to the pressure plate?

The basket seems to be fine, but steel, friction and pressure plates will all need to be replaced. I'm going to pull the basket to inspect the back side just to make sure everything else is fine. I'm really concerned about how much debris has made its way elsewhere. Obviously an oil change must happen, anything else I can do to insure I get all the junk out. I've rebuilt a dozen clutches in my days and have never seen one grenaded so badly inside.

Indecently, my s-son posted to the Yamaha-R1 forum asking for advice, and man-o-man did he ever take a beating from those guys. Three pages worth of razzing over his stupidity. Some lessons are learned the hard way I guess.

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post #2 of 19 Old 05-03-2008, 8:32 PM
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

I can't even imagine what that bonehead must have done to do that to a pretty strong clutch. It's not like the bike was a small displacement bike and he had to wing the hell out of it to get it to do whatever he was trying to do either. I'm not going to hammer on your son as it sounds as though he's had his share but was he standing there watching this happen? Can't imagine.
As far as the clutch goes I think your doing all the right stuff. Clean it up the best you can and replace everything including the springs. They also may have overheated and lost their tensile strength. The clutch may have burned the one plate because it became the weakest link first, that's all.
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post #3 of 19 Old 05-03-2008, 8:36 PM
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

Quote:
Indecently, my s-son posted to the Yamaha-R1 forum asking for advice, and man-o-man did he ever take a beating from those guys. Three pages worth of razzing over his stupidity. Some lessons are learned the hard way I guess.
Well at least some good came of it.

As far as it being the middle plate I'd suspect that it is always going to be the weakest link that goes and once it starts there is no stopping it. That plate might have had some small defect or imperfection.

If it was my bike I'd drain all the oil, refill, start it up just long enough to circulate and then drain it all again. You could use any cheap oil for the flush since it's just going to go in and then back out.

Edit: looks like I was too slow, typing this, denzee beat me to the "weakest link." Is the stunna friend paying for the new clutch?
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-03-2008, 8:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

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Originally Posted by slickwill View Post
Well at least some good came of it.

As far as it being the middle plate I'd suspect that it is always going to be the weakest link that goes and once it starts there is no stopping it. That plate might have had some small defect or imperfection.

If it was my bike I'd drain all the oil, refill, start it up just long enough to circulate and then drain it all again. You could use any cheap oil for the flush since it's just going to go in and then back out.

Edit: looks like I was too slow, typing this, denzee beat me to the "weakest link." Is the stunna friend paying for the new clutch?
I was thinking the same thing with running some cheap oil through it for a couple of minutes and then draining.

The guy was more of an "aquaintence" that he's run into a few times, not really a friend. He (my s-son) suffers from "you have GOT to take a ride on this bike" syndrom. He loves when guys take it out and come back and rave about how nice the bike it and so forth...makes him feel good. It's a maturity thing with him...I'll bet he won't make the mistake again.

The guy refused to pay for anything. The police said "you did hand him the keys, your only hope is to take him to small claims". Probably not worth it for under $200.

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post #5 of 19 Old 05-03-2008, 8:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

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Originally Posted by denzee View Post
<snip> I'm not going to hammer on your son as it sounds as though he's had his share but was he standing there watching this happen? Can't imagine.
As far as the clutch goes I think your doing all the right stuff. Clean it up the best you can and replace everything including the springs. They also may have overheated and lost their tensile strength. The clutch may have burned the one plate because it became the weakest link first, that's all.
Thanks denzee. He has taken crap from every direction, and feels like a schmuck for sure.

I wondered about the springs, when I saw the pressure plate, it was very discolored from the heat and wondered if the Springs could have annealed enough to lose some of their strength. Good suggestion, they can't be to expensive, and why not replace them while we're in there?

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post #6 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 1:04 PM
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

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Originally Posted by Phadreus View Post
I was thinking the same thing with running some cheap oil through it for a couple of minutes and then draining.

The guy was more of an "aquaintence" that he's run into a few times, not really a friend. He (my s-son) suffers from "you have GOT to take a ride on this bike" syndrom. He loves when guys take it out and come back and rave about how nice the bike it and so forth...makes him feel good. It's a maturity thing with him...I'll bet he won't make the mistake again.

The guy refused to pay for anything. The police said "you did hand him the keys, your only hope is to take him to small claims". Probably not worth it for under $200.
From what you stated a bove, is a liter bike wise for him? Even a court probably wouldn't rule in his favor.

As you mentioned in your other post, yep replace the springs. Might as well as replace all of the clutch components; cheap insurance.

Last edited by lanbrown; 05-04-2008 at 2:32 PM.
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 1:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

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Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
From what you stated a bove, is a litre bike wise for him? <snip>.
Nope, not at all. He has years of riding experience in the dirt, and can certainly handle the R1, it's his youth and lack of maturity / wisdom that kills him (hopefully not literally). I've been on bikes since I was 5 yrs old, and was pretty mature for my age when I was twenty, and it wouldn't have been any more appropriate for me to be on one that young either. My buddies dad said something to me one time that I thought was funny regarding this; "we shouldn't allow young guys to ride liter bikes for the same reason God didn't give scorpions wings, it's too #$&#37;^ing dangerous!".

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post #8 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 2:33 PM
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

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Originally Posted by Phadreus View Post
it's his youth and lack of maturity / wisdom that kills him (hopefully not literally).
That is my point.
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 2:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

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Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
That is my point.
What do you do Lan when a kid is twenty and is no longer your responsibilty? He walked in to the dealership, signed his name and rode out on the R1. I found out about it when I came home from work and it was in my driveway.

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post #10 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 3:10 PM
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

Does he live in your house? He plays by your rules or not at all. The better approach though, supervise the work but make him do all of it. Obviously he pays for the parts too. Make him learn from his mistakes and maybe next time he won't give the keys out.
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post #11 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 5:13 PM
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

This story brings tears to my eyes. The 2008 R1 is my dream bike and I think it' one of the most beautiful two wheelers on earth, and that's any 2 wheeler. What I find hard to grasp is how a youngster can afford such a bike because down here in RSA, A bike like that will set you back $18000 new. I am 42 and i can't afford it yet. Bud, so long as s-son lives under your roof, he plays by your rules. I personally think bike must be repaired and sold off pronto and be replaced with a CBR400/YZR400 and the like until junior learns to be more mature and perhaps in 4/5 years from now, he will learn that only a level headed, mature being deserves the "mighty Yam". I have a sad feeling that the creep who rode his bike deliberately knackered it by pressing the front wheel up against a kerb or wall and spinning the rear wheel at maximum revs with his full weight on the back wheel. no bike will survive that punishment. i won't be surprised if the tranny also suffered long term damage which will show up in time. just tell the lad the the bike is completely messed up and he has to let it go. that'll teach him.
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 5:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

I hear you guys loud and clear and don't disagree. However, he bought the bike while living on his own, I'll explain the financing in a minute. He was living with his girlfriend of 5 years, and he and her had some fight and she dropped him and his stuff off at my wife and my house. The deal is he's only here until he get's his own apartment, another few weeks at most (yeah right...). He's also between jobs right now, living off what little savings he has left. So how could he buy a brand new bike while out of work you ask? It's incredible, (at least to me) but he walked into the dealership, filled out the loan app and in a half an hour was signing the paperwork for the bike. The dealership signed him up for a credit card to buy the bike, so he actually has the title to the bike. This way he could also carry liability insurance because no insurance company will provide full coverage on a bike like that for a 20 year old. This is a VERY common practice for this particular dealership, and I would bet they are not alone in this practice. The whole thing is crazy and not like how it was when I was a young man.

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post #13 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 5:42 PM
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

that dealership must be reported and investigated. Not only are their practices highly questionable but also they have no morals or ethics. Giving a bike like that to a 20 year old is like giving a firearm to an infant, it's only gonna end in disaster. for his sake, do something.
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 5:46 PM
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

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The dealership signed him up for a credit card to buy the bike, so he actually has the title to the bike. This way he could also carry liability insurance because no insurance company will provide full coverage on a bike like that for a 20 year old. This is a VERY common practice for this particular dealership, and I would bet they are not alone in this practice. The whole thing is crazy and not like how it was when I was a young man.
Yep, a very common practice among all dealerships (that should be outlawed). They love it, they can get anyone approved and out the door with whatever. I almost got suckered into it on a new dirtbike when I was about 21. I had no job and was living off of my scholarships money (grades pay). Went down to the local dealership and in about 15 minutes was approved for $6000 on a Kawi card. Minimum payment would have worked out to something like $40 a month. Luckily I came to my senses, did the "real" math and realized I'd be paying for the bike until I was 35 at that rate. In your step sons case at todays interest rate he'll probably be paying for that bike when he's 50 if he doesn't get smart and pay a LOT more than the minimum payment. At the time I worked out a deal for a free ragged out KDX250 instead. Had a great time on that bike and ended up in way better shape than if I had bought the new bike.
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post #15 of 19 Old 05-04-2008, 5:54 PM
 
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Re: 08 R1 Clutch destruction

BTW, do you know what the bike cost him in total?
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