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I couldn't get past that guy in the middle of the picture who's name is Letourneau. Bet he wishes he could change it! (i.e. Mary Kay Letourneau - the teacher who went to jail for "being with" her student)
 

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We're close to a ban in my city, I can hardly wait.

Goddamned smokers. Like the guy in the apartment above my ground-level condo who smokes on his patio and tosses the cigarette butts on my lawn. Haven't caught him doing it yet, but when I do.... :rant:
 

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How about a compromise? You can smoke, but you have to wear a helmet. :rolleyes:

If you don't want your elected representatives to busy themselves entangling you in stupid laws, VOTE THEM OUT. And if you can't find a candidate who will use their brain on a regular basis, convince someone to run or do it yourself.
 

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"live free and die smoking"

I actually don't mind the fact that this didn't pass. Most of the places we eat out at don't allow smoking anyway...or if they do, the area is well removed from the non-smoking areas.

Let the restaurant owners decide what they want to do. Smoking is not illegal and until it is, it is not the Govt's place to say where you can and can not do it.
 

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They are trying to pass this law in NJ(supposed to go into affect on the 15th,but still in court agruments) Im pretty sure its going to get thrown out though, because it doesnt include the casinos in AC and the bar owners are pissed about that.
I say pass the law why should I have to suffer if another person wants to ruin their lungs.
 

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nhfirefighter13 said:
"live free and die smoking"

I actually don't mind the fact that this didn't pass. Most of the places we eat out at don't allow smoking anyway...or if they do, the area is well removed from the non-smoking areas.

Let the restaurant owners decide what they want to do. Smoking is not illegal and until it is, it is not the Govt's place to say where you can and can not do it.
I'm with you on this. I do feel bad for the workers, but they chose to work there. I just don't go to restaurants that allow smoking, and there are very few here that do.
 

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Most of the Towns/Cities that I have lived in over the last few years have changed to None smoking or they have a fish bowl for them. Being a nonsmoker I like this, and think is is fair for the smokers as well.

It was a shock when I moved to Alberta and went out to a few places in Calgary and there was still smoking. I was amazed how quickly I got use to drinking in a non smoking environment and how much it bothered me. Before theys tarted removing smoking it was always there and I accepted it as part of the Bar Experience.
 

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nhfirefighter13 said:
Let the restaurant owners decide what they want to do. Smoking is not illegal and until it is, it is not the Govt's place to say where you can and can not do it.
:wstupid: Just another freedom being taken away. And I say this as a non-smoker.
 

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Typical NH bullshit bickering. :thumbd:

nhfirefighter13 said:
Let the restaurant owners decide what they want to do. Smoking is not illegal and until it is, it is not the Govt's place to say where you can and can not do it.
That doesn't hold. It's the governments place to tell you just about anything- their doing so determines its legality. Drinking is not illegal but you're told where it's acceptable (and how much). Being naked isn't illegal, but there are places it's deemed inappropriate. Carrying a gun isn't illegal (especially in NH) as long as you follow the rules. These things I've listed don't have any measurable side-effects or cause harm to a person in your vicinity- smoking does.

Sunbert said:
I'm with you on this. I do feel bad for the workers, but they chose to work there. I just don't go to restaurants that allow smoking, and there are very few here that do.
Everyone has a right to work in a safe environment, an amosphere filled with pollutants isn't the safest of places. Not all people can freely "choose" where they work and simply work where they can. Particularly once you start hitting rural areas of that state your opportunities for employment diminish outstandingly. If all the employers in a town that you're qualified to work for impose a smoke-laden environment and you're powerless to relocate you end up paying for your income, ultimately, with your health.

It was refreshing to move to California from NH. I can actually go to restaurants, bars, concerts, pool halls, etc. without the assy reek of nicotene permeating my clothes and covering my body nor attaching itself to my lungs.
 

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esoteric said:
Typical NH bullshit bickering. :thumbd:


That doesn't hold. It's the governments place to tell you just about anything- their doing so determines its legality. Drinking is not illegal but you're told where it's acceptable (and how much). Being naked isn't illegal, but there are places it's deemed inappropriate. Carrying a gun isn't illegal (especially in NH) as long as you follow the rules. These things I've listed don't have any measurable side-effects or cause harm to a person in your vicinity- smoking does.


Everyone has a right to work in a safe environment, an amosphere filled with pollutants isn't the safest of places. Not all people can freely "choose" where they work and simply work where they can. Particularly once you start hitting rural areas of that state your opportunities for employment diminish outstandingly. If all the employers in a town that you're qualified to work for impose a smoke-laden environment and you're powerless to relocate you end up paying for your income, ultimately, with your health.

It was refreshing to move to California from NH. I can actually go to restaurants, bars, concerts, pool halls, etc. without the assy reek of nicotene permeating my clothes and covering my body nor attaching itself to my lungs.
I guess you'll never find work in the motorcycle business or with a racing team. I can guarantee you that the fumes, particulates, odors and carcinogens present in most competition work environments make second hand smoke pale in comparison. I can think of at least five other occupations that require exposure to much more hazardous conditions than those found working in a restaurant that allows smoking.
 

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I absolutely disagree with you. You want to ban smoking in public places, BAN SMOKING! Period. Yes, it's bad for people. Yes, second hand smoke is bad for people. Nicotine is bad for you. Inhaling superheated gas is bad for you.

Do NOT tell me (if I were a restaurant owner) what I can and can not do (within reason).

If I remember correctly, even Hitler attemped to ban smoking and for somebody like that to say it's bad it must really be bad, right? Don't misunderstand me, I don't like cigarettes and I think smoking them is just about one of the dumbest things you can do to yourself but you either make it illegal or leave it alone.

Live free or die....I think smoking in a restaurant falls into that statement somewhere.
 

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abtech said:
I guess you'll never find work in the motorcycle business or with a racing team. I can guarantee you that the fumes, particulates, odors and carcinogens present in most competition work environments make second hand smoke pale in comparison. I can think of at least five other occupations that require exposure to much more hazardous conditions than those found working in a restaurant that allows smoking.
I work with carcinogens, mutagens, and zoonotic diseases.:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 

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Sunbert said:
I work with carcinogens, mutagens, and zoonotic diseases.:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
gotta love those zoonotic diseases . . .

One of our former team members works in an injection molding facility. He wears all of the protective gear including the mandatory respirator, splash deflectors, gloves, goggles etc. whenever he is in the production area. After 20 years at this place, his skin is like leather and he has gone completely bald (all over). Evidently this isn't uncommon for places that use aerochlor and other somewhat complex caustics. This particular person is a PhD in chemistry and works in design, not actually on the line. When management banned all smoking on the premises he protested like crazy and actually quit to work for their biggest competitor with terms in his contract that he could smoke in his office.

His feeling is that the chemical exposure will collect him a lot sooner than smoking will.
 

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nhfirefighter13 said:
I absolutely disagree with you. You want to ban smoking in public places, BAN SMOKING! Period. Yes, it's bad for people. Yes, second hand smoke is bad for people. Nicotine is bad for you. Inhaling superheated gas is bad for you.
So nothing should ever be restricted only permitted or fully banned? Alcohol is restricted... bans on that have clearly failed so we should therefore totally derestrict alcohol. Speed in a motorvehicle is restricted but we should either ban motorvehicles or totally eliminate the speed limit?
What's the liklihood of a ban on smoking working? Prohibition "worked"? No. So then because you couldn't successfully ban something in society unlimited freedom must be provided with respect to it? I think not.

nhfirefighter13 said:
Do NOT tell me (if I were a restaurant owner) what I can and can not do (within reason).
IF you were a restaurant owner you are already being told what you can and cannot do, like any other business and any other citizen, within reason, of course. Possibly you also object to health inspections, fire code inspections, paying under the table, fair labor laws, limitations due to serving alcohol, hours of operation, minimum wage, business signage, indecent exposure? Maybe every potential law could seem to be outside of reason when one fails to establish reason. I say it's well within reason to favor public health over poor personal choice in public places, particularly enclosed public places. Smoke in your car, walking down the street, in your home, knock yourself out. Smoking in an enclosed public establishment is not only not cool, it's hazardous to others.

nhfirefighter13 said:
If I remember correctly, even Hitler attemped to ban smoking and for somebody like that to say it's bad it must really be bad, right?
Adolf Hitler was a fucking nutjob. There is no conclusion one can draw about the good or bad of any decision someone that messed up makes just on the knowledge that the person is tweaked. You could argue bothways:
"If even Adolf Hitler could recognize how bad smoking was, then smoking must truly be bad."
"Adolf Hitler was an evil man and inherently did things against societies interest. His attempt to ban smoking was clearly antisocial and wrong given the importance of smoking in society."
It's an invalid argument either way.

nhfirefighter13 said:
Don't misunderstand me, I don't like cigarettes and I think smoking them is just about one of the dumbest things you can do to yourself but you either make it illegal or leave it alone.
The interest here is not in what you do to yourself, it's what you do to others. It's an area effect. Smoking already has restrictions on it- 18 or 21 to buy? Why should smoking be a UNIQUE thing free from being subject to further restriction in the interest of society?

nhfirefighter13 said:
Live free or die....I think smoking in a restaurant falls into that statement somewhere.
Live free or jeopardize the health of others, you mean. I think it fits there better. When one groups freedom jeopardizes the healthful well-being of anothers then that freedom needs an element of curtailment.
 

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Sunbert said:
I work with carcinogens, mutagens, and zoonotic diseases.:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Ah, but I'm pretty certain this isn't the only job you're qualified for and are free to seek employment in a line of work that should be hazard free.
 

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"Live free or jeopardize the health of others, you mean. I think it fits there better. When one groups freedom jeopardizes the healthful well-being of anothers then that freedom needs an element of curtailment."

I think you have about 400 targets in front of that line of reasoning before limiting smoking in public areas.

The freedom of the oil and automotive industries to slowly poison the population of most metropolitan areas comes to mind. The by-products of chemical and ferrous productions in the water supply and the residual amounts of ferrous particles released into the atmosphere by Oil powered electric generation stations pose about 2000% of the threat that second hand smoking does.

Interestingly all of these hazards are driven by economics and until people decide they can live without convenient transportation, electricity and heating/cooling, they will be slowly killing themselves and others because it would be inconvenient not to.

I see your avatar states that you own 2 motorcycles (and you probably drive a car as well), so I see you are doing your part to take years off the lives of your fellow Californians . . .:thumb:
 
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