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Discussion Starter #1
i want to know what is the difference between the 929 and the 954 engine beside the size of the bore and piston.
I ask that because I'm rebuilding a 954 engine and i want to know is the tranny the same and what else. because i have a 929 engine with low miles but it has a cracked case.
 

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i want to know what is the difference between the 929 and the 954 engine beside the size of the bore and piston.
I ask that because I'm rebuilding a 954 engine and i want to know is the tranny the same and what else.

Transmission, clutch, oil pump, water pump, oil cooler, oil pan, clutch cover, camchain and guides and the head should be interchangeable. Cams are interchangeable but 954 have _slightly_ more lift.
 

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thanks, that was very helpful.
what about the guts of the engine.....
What do you mean by the guts?
The rods are probably interchangeable but I'd use the 954 rods as I think they're lighter and stronger. Same with the crank.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
cool... Can u explain compression, is it the more compression u make the faster the bike goes or does it make more torque and is there a difference.. i was able to to get my 929 up to 170, and while doing that my brother 04 cbr1000 was ahead of me doing 182 and a friend of our's on a 08 cbr600rr was right there with me and i couldn't get rid of him and there was no more throttle. so now up grading to a 954 with ported and polish head i hope to be to be right there with the big boys. Is there anything i could do to gain more horse power, i heard about getting better cams but i don't know which ones to get.
Also should i stay with stock piston or go for after market and which ones are the better ones. any minfo won how to upgrade my bike will be helpful.
 

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cool... Can u explain compression, is it the more compression u make the faster the bike goes or does it make more torque and is there a difference.. i was able to to get my 929 up to 170, and while doing that my brother 04 cbr1000 was ahead of me doing 182 and a friend of our's on a 08 cbr600rr was right there with me and i couldn't get rid of him and there was no more throttle. so now up grading to a 954 with ported and polish head i hope to be r mf bn ight there with the 1000. Is there any thing
Sweet! Which track was this at?
 

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cool... Can u explain compression, is it the more compression u make the faster the bike goes or does it make more torque and is there a difference.. i was able to to get my 929 up to 170, and while doing that my brother 04 cbr1000 was ahead of me doing 182 and a friend of our's on a 08 cbr600rr was right there with me and i couldn't get rid of him and there was no more throttle. so now up grading to a 954 with ported and polish head i hope to be to be right there with the big boys. Is there anything i could do to gain more horse power, i heard about getting better cams but i don't know which ones to get.
Also should i stay with stock piston or go for after market and which ones are the better ones. any minfo won how to upgrade my bike will be helpful.

You will need a _lot_ more power to increase your top speed. The 929 and 954 have little if any difference in top speed.
The higher your compression ratio the more power you get when you ignite the fuel air mixture. You get more heat than power though and the power increase is marginal.
Yes there's a difference. Torque is only relevant in trucks and tractors. You want horsepower.
Start with a good quality full race exhaust system, PC3 and good custom map. Then I'd try some cams. But the power increase from these is not going to make much difference to your top speed. The limiting factor is wind resistance.
Replacing the pistons requires a complete engine rebuild and any power increase is not going to be significant - unless your pistons and rings are very worn currently.
Don't they have any corners where you are? Bikes are much more exciting through twisty roads than straight lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Not really that kind of riding we have to go upstate New York Normally we ride the Long Island Expressway all the way to the Hampton where we have a 50 mile straight run. So we top out. I plan on saving my money to do alot of track time this summer. So from what i got i'll stay stock. I'll be buying a pc111 during the rebuild of my 954 engine because i want them to dyno the bike while it's there.
Blade what do u think of MMI school. I am in the process of talkinng to a recruiter on attending....
 

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Not really that kind of riding we have to go upstate New York Normally we ride the Long Island Expressway all the way to the Hampton where we have a 50 mile straight run. So we top out. I plan on saving my money to do alot of track time this summer. So from what i got i'll stay stock. I'll be buying a pc111 during the rebuild of my 954 engine because i want them to dyno the bike while it's there.
Blade what do u think of MMI school. I am in the process of talking to a recruiter on attending....

A fifty-mile straight run sounds bloody boring :)
Maybe find some back roads instead of the expressway?

I've had conversations here and elsewhere with "mechanics" that claim to be MMI-trained. If they genuinely were then I would regard MMI as a complete waste of time and money. And the number of people that claim to be qualified US auto mechanics that ask the most basic questions about servicing their bikes is also scary.
Without a passion to learn, and to keep learning after you get your ticket, no school training is going to make you into a good mechanic. And if you already have that passion then you don't need the school training.

Are you building your 954 engine yourself?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
no i'm not i sent it to a reputable bike shop that some of my friends use and he gave me a good price to do the work. I did that because i don't have the time to be down.... I have friends who are calling me to come work on their bikes, starting issues, changing clutch, changing parts here and there, nothing major.. I have my 929 engine that needs to be rebuilt so i'll use that as a project.......
 

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hey Bladeracer i read on one of your reply that u can stroke a 954 to a 1024cc, could you take the time and explain to me what is stroking i heard its much better than boring out the engine.
 

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Thing is... Even though you are on the bigger bike.. You dont make all that much more power. Then it comes down to aerodynamics, which rider can get more tucked and out of the stream. Then where you shift, even how long your shifts take :)

Allll about rider.

My buddy raced on an SV650 against CBR600s R6s and GSXR600s.. He beat them all.
Even then 1000s had a hard time beating him.

So if you think about it.. Rider makes a huge difference
 

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hey Bladeracer i read on one of your reply that u can stroke a 954 to a 1024cc, could you take the time and explain to me what is stroking i heard its much better than boring out the engine.
1024cc is from stroking the 954 crank 4mm and keeping the pistons the same size. Stroking is far more expensive than boring, even with modern plated cylinders. To bore the engine you're looking at around US$1500 for pistons, boring and replating. Stroking can easily double that with the crank work and custom rods and/or pistons. The crankshaft is the lever that does all the work. It converts the pressure from combustion into a rotational force and transmits it to the wheels, so never take shortcuts with the crank.

Two dimensions make up the cylinder capacity.
Bore or piston diameter gives you the area of the cylinder.
Crank stroke gives you the height of the cylinder.

It depends on what you're trying to achieve as to which is better. Increasing the surface area of the piston gives you more area for combustion pressure to work on. An increase of 10% in bore diameter gives 20% increase in capacity.
Increasing the stroke lengthens the "lever" that pushes the crankshaft around. A 10% increase in stroke gives the same increase in capacity as it simply makes the cylinder 10% longer.
But the longer stroke requires some fixes as the piston goes up higher and down lower by half the increase in stroke. At the bottom of the stroke the piston skirt will hit the crank weights. This requires cutting away some of the skirt and/or reducing the diameter of the crank weights - which has the added benefit of lightening the crank.
At the top of the stroke you need to raise the cylinder head or the piston will hit it. If you have a removable cylinder block then it's fairly simple to put an aluminium plate between the block and the crankcase and use two base gaskets. Or, if the distance is small you might be able to use a plate between the cylinder head and the cylinder deck and two head gaskets. The best way though, is to use shorter rods and/or reduce compression height of the piston. The compression height of the piston is the distance from the centre of the piston pin to the top of the piston deck. The best way to change this is simply to order custom pistons to suit your engine geometry. If the piston pin is already as high as it can go then reducing it's diameter will raise it by half the difference with the benfits of less pin weight and less surface area contact between the pin and the piston. You might be able to machine some height off the top of the piston for example.

The ideal is to find a rod that will work and then design the engine to suit those dimensions. If you have a failure you can replace the rods cheaply and easily compared to having custom rods made again. The two ways to stroke the crank are by welding up the outside of the crankpin and then regrinding it on a new centre back to its original diameter. Or by offset grinding the pin down to a smaller diameter by taking away metal only from the inside of the pin. Both methods may require altering or moving the oil galleries in the crankpins and crank weights.

You need to be aware that changing the rod length and the crank stroke will change the rod ratio which changes the dwell time at the top and bottom of the stroke.

Modern sportsbike engines have such tight bore spacing that boring is very restricted (you need to retain a minimum amount of metal between the cylinders for strength) so stroking is likely to become more common for those chasing more capacity.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks Blade, I've notice that everthing has alot to do with numbers. Anybody can remoive and put back, but if your specs are not right, it will throw everything off.
 
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