954rr ticking, pausing, bogging

925 Views 18 Replies 2 Participants Last post by ropp, May 21, 2022

clammybird

Discussion Starter · May 12, 2022

Hello all,
I am a new owner of an 02 954rr. I have always wanted a fireblade. I have owned a vstar 650, then a ninja 500, then a vfr 800, then another vfr 800, then a sprint st 1050, and now my very own fireblade. Hallelujah.

However we have some issues.
Firstly, the bike came with a power commander 3, and an Arrow exhaust. I think it is at least a half system, if not a full system. The can is freaking massive. I put my delkevic 8 inch carbon fiber on it today and loved it in ways but it also seemed to make it even more obvious that not all is right since I could hear the engine better while riding.

22k miles.

I have been loading tunes today that seem relevant to my setup to no joy.

Here are my issues.

I hear a sowing machine going on, and assume it may be a cam chain tensioner. It sounds a lot like when I had the same issue on my ninja 500. Tick tick tick tick...

But also, it bogs at take off. I have to add a bunch of throttle, then quickly ease off, then adjust to riding normal, or it will almost fall on its face and stall. Increasing the "low" setting on the power commander to way up seems to help a bit, but does not solve all of the issues at all and only gives maybe a 35%-40% improvement. It takes off nothing whatsoever like my triumph 1050 and is currently a real pain in the ass to deal with in traffic due to it's ailment.

Alas, finally. Once it heats up, it will almost die on idle. When I get to a light, it will go tick to a silence and then continue. At a light it may happen 3 times, unless I give it constant throttle.

Finally, it has seemingly a delay to throttle. I twist and it seems to ramp up to where I am actually leading it to. When I put my delkevic on it made it very clear that it all around is not running optimally and I am pretty sure my Sprint st 1050 with +1 sprocket is all around quicker right now. It certainly is worlds better responsive.

Please help lead me to water... I am fighting for time on my days off to work on things and am really frustrated. If someone could point me to things to check I would be very grateful. Could a lot of this be vacuum related? I ask this since richening up the low seems to help a bit. Need to check the air box soon and am guessing trying out a manual tensioner. Maybe try the bike without the power commander.

PS if I load the "no map" tune file for power commander, is this the same as running the bike without the power commander? Or is it just empty and void and will result in nothing good without manual entry for all fields?

Thank you

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clammybird

Discussion Starter · #2 · May 12, 2022

So far it seems I should try cam chain tensioner, fuel pressure regulator, map sensor. What else?

The bike was serviced 5 months ago and the receipt says the fuel pump was replaced, a water pump rebuild kit installed...

Idle is currently set just about 2k rpms at cold start, and right around 1.5 at warm up...

ropp

· #3 · May 12, 2022

as you know the PC hijacks the message from the ECU and alters the message, so would try taking the PC off and see how it runs , try taking the vacuum pipe off the FPR and see if you have any fuel coming from it

clammybird

Discussion Starter · #4 · May 12, 2022

ropp said:
as you know the PC hijacks the message from the ECU and alters the message, so would try taking the PC off and see how it runs , try taking the vacuum pipe off the FPR and see if you have any fuel coming from it

Yes I will be trying both these things soon, thank you.

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clammybird

Discussion Starter · #5 · May 13, 2022

So as it turns out, the FPR is indeed leaky with the power on. I also have some fuel drops underneath the bike coming out of some hose or other after starting the bike. Got a new FPR ordered. Thrilled, because I am hopeful that this is the bog/idle/power problem wrapped in one easy solution. Air filter looks very clean. Reset TPS. Have new iridium spark plugs showing up tomorrow.

I have some map sensors laying around from a VFR 800. They look pretty much identical. I have heard these are interchangeable. The model number is close but not the same. What say you, internet?

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ropp

· #6 · May 13, 2022

Was looking into this parts swap some time ago for a 954 found this out
TPS TESTING ON THE 3 WIRES
Back Probe the 3 wires from the tps with a voltmeter. It will have an input voltage
wire, output voltage, and a ground. You need to probe the output voltage wire,
which should be around .4v with the throttle closed, and at wot be someplace
around 5v. While your probing, slowly open the throttle and make sure the volts
slowly but gradually reaches around 5v. Watch for dead spots, if it has them,
it's bad. Best to use an Analogue Meter so the needle moves smoothly
Ground wire - Green/Orange
Input Voltage wire - Yellow/Red
Output voltage wire - Red/Yellow
TR3J -TR4J Honda Accord CRV CRX 2001-2
Maybe the Map sensor may fit too

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clammybird

Discussion Starter · #7 · May 13, 2022 (Edited)

Good to know. When I said I reset the TPS, I should have clarified that I did it through power commander. I will say that power commander seems to reflect the correct numbers for where the throttle is on screen. But I can test this way also I suppose. Thank you!

PS also I have loaded "zero map" on power commander. It seems to be that since power commander is an over-riding thing, and not an ECU hard programming thing, that if power commander has a table full of zeros on screen then it just means its leaving those ranges alone. I was afraid originally it meant the PC would turn my ECU into a vegtable with the "no map" "tune" lol. Ive decided I need the bike to be functioning correctly before I start tuning if at all. But if after the new FPS if it is still acting like crap I will physically remove the PC.

Also I have ordered a physical copy of a service manual. Also ordered a manual tensioner. But before going down that route I am tempted to take a video of the bike and its tick and ask the interwebs if I am just being a hypochondriac.

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clammybird

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 15, 2022

Wellp. Spark plugs were black and slimy. Put in a new FPS after dumping probably half a gallon of gas all over my bike, garage, shorts, everything. Thankfully kept it off the fairings somehow. Sprayed it all down with water and let it sit out in the sun. Made me nervous. Probably not going to ride it much for a bit and just let everything evap.

BUT by golly. I think my bikes a ladyboy cus shes got BALLS. Lol. Fires right up, idles real strong, revs sound way cleaner, punchier. Takes right off. Feels like a brand new bike. I do not have a tune on it, took the PC off. I am running my 8" delkevic carbon fiber slip on. Sounds mean. Way better than the massive and massively pricy Arrow carbon fiber it came with.

Anyway.

I am officially a 1st time fireblade owner and couldnt be happier. Going to put some tasteful mods on the thing and ride the shit out of it. Still going to install a new cam chain tensioner cus im still pretty sure it could use it. Next big deal will be checking valves and CCT install.

Thanks

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clammybird

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 15, 2022

Its still hesitating at idle once it heats up around 220 degrees... idle rpm 1500... so idk. Sounds like it's going to fall on its face and then keeps going. Maybe once a minute at idle past 220 degrees.

clammybird

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 15, 2022

That's around the time of the fan right... maybe stator or r/r related?

Reactions: 1

ropp

· #11 · May 16, 2022

First of all I would set the idle closer to 1200rpm on the Idle adjustment knob , I know these bikes dont like idling too long and that will bring up the temp quite fast , dont think you have a problem with the electrics but have a look at this

clammybird

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 17, 2022

Thank you. Seen that once, it's been a while. Will use that. I have an el cheapo rectifier + a computer fan coming to see if I mounted a new one outside the bike with a fan on it if my problems cease. I know they die quick... but I can't afford a Ricks right now but nevertheless I need diagnosis.

But come to think of it, I rode to work today an hour... aaaand... it never did it. And it got hot... it made me uber paranoid... got up to 235 at a light and was rising fast and it was only 95 out at the time. Got up to 105 later in the day outside. When riding it quickly settles to 200 and then long term riding down to 188 or so. But going to work it didnt hesitate... riding home it didnt hesitate. Riding home I took a back way highway to avoid traffic stops and boy oh boy does the bike tickle the ol pickleroo... feels guud man. Runs great at "highway speeds" heavy quotes (90-135mph)

So that's a first. Before today it would hesitate at idle.

Anyway. Thing is though, when I got home, I know that when you shut bikes off when hot, the temps will rise whether you see the temp guage on to show you or not. Thats why I am so paranoid about the temp... I had woes with my vfr 800 thermostat. I know that if you wait until 245 or 250 to shut it off... its too late. Its going to rise and rise and get fucked. So I turned off the ignition but left the bike on so the fan could come on in a moment. It did. The fan was on mmmmaybe 2 minutes. Maybe. I plugged it into a charger... said 75% battery. Yesterday I had it idling for a few minutes and checked the battery at 80% from idling for 5 min. Im told its a brand new battery. Volts seem good on the multimeter when ive checked it. Havent tried it under load, though. Id be amazed if a couple minutes of fan results in 25% battery loss. No resistance to manually hand spinning the fan.

So IDK. Working a lot of hours out in the sun right now so can't get into things until Wednesday. Looking forward to when I am no longer paranoid and can just ride and put some tasteful mods on it. Will use the guide you sent soon ropp and check things out more in detail on the electrical side. Going to look at wires going to the stator... dig out the ground block... check grounds in general... go through your guide... and dump and flush coolant, change to distilled water + water wetter, put a manual fan switch on.

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clammybird

Discussion Starter · #13 · May 19, 2022

Ignore this post, phone is being retarded, will post tonight

clammybird

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 21, 2022

Been sick today... my whole day goes like this:
violently barf
try to replenish water, drink half a glass of water
lay down, fall asleep
wake up, run to the bathroom to barf

times like 20-25 times. Rough times. Pulled the bike over on the side of the highway to barf leaving work after going in and throwing up, leaving. Good times. Taking tomorrow off also and hopefully I can get off the couch/toilet and work more in detail on the bike.

So an interesting thing, once taking pc3 off and putting a different slip on on, it didnt do the idle hesitation at all, like I posted. Well I put the pc3 back on and put the arrow full system back on with matching pc3 map, and the idle hesitation came back. It only happens, again, around the time of the fan. Its doing it a lot less because after flushing the system its running a lot cooler. But it is happening.

I did look at a plug, and it seemed to me a bit lean looking. That was before I put the pc3 back on, thinking it would send more fuel. It seems reasonable to me that it could be a lean condition at idle after warming up causing it to momentarily cut out. I am thinking about getting a stock air filter and getting rid of the k&n it has on it.

Also... I need to take a picture of this... there seems to be these like 3 holes at the bottom of the air box... almost like its supposed to have a vacuum tube there. I cant find too many pictures of the bottom/inside of peoples airbox. But what I DO find I am not seeing the same thing. I am not talking about the 2 big vacuum tube holes, with tubes attached, one being the pair system. Theres like 3 small holes at the bottom. I will have to take a picture. I wonder if they were for a mod of some kind that isnt there anymore. if you guys dont know what it is, ill plug them.

Tomorow I am going to try to install the ape cam chain tensioner I got in the mail, my -1 front sprocket, look at the airbox, mabe plug some holes, do some electrical testing finally. Im starting to also think though that it is not electrically related but a lean condition. Or maybe valves.

(edit) I will also check out the TPS the way laid out by ropp also.

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ropp

· #15 · May 21, 2022

Dont know what the holes are for , but I would put some grommets in,

clammybird

Discussion Starter · #16 · May 21, 2022

ropp said:
Dont know what the holes are for , but I would put some grommets in,

Wonder if its a cause of a lot of my woes. Its also getting air unfiltered then which is just super. I was thinking id figure out what it's for and decide from there... but if its alien to you it must be a mod. I will plug those boys up.

ropp

· #17 · May 21, 2022

Has it had the Pair mod as well, and what type of Air Filter are you using, me I like my bikes Stock (not very ambitious I know) and boring

clammybird

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 21, 2022

ropp said:
Has it had the Pair mod as well, and what type of Air Filter are you using, me I like my bikes Stock (not very ambitious I know) and boring

I just did the pair mod. I just plugged it up, nothing fancy, and unplugged it. With my mini 8" delkevic slip on added to the bike I can hear a really ugly popping... its like half pop half knock... only coming from the muffler.. its just like a pop resonating at an ugly sounding place. Also I thought maybe removing pair could possibly help with temps? So I plugged it up. But since the mod ive been using the arrow muffler anyway, and with or without the mod theres no such popping. Sometime I will try the delkevic can again cus I think its way sexier and I like being heard on the road. But I put the arrow back on because Im going to be doing a bunch of idling in the garage working on stuff and don't want to destroy the peace in my neighborhood. When its all suited up the delkevic will get put back on and the arrow sold, most likely.

The air filter is k&n, and I am thinking itd be best to get a stock filter. Flapper is still there.

Although, one thing ive been meaning to bring up. Its a full arrow system in the sense that it does not have htev whatsoever. Theres no htev device there. I know very very little about these things... servo motor... don't know what a servo motor is lol... all this is new territory for me. I do know that a lot of people whom deleted the htev lived to regret it, and many of them came up with cope and reasonings for why its actually still better but their bike is running worse. That much I do understand. And I have no freakin idea the machinations of htev/servo/whatever the hell the stuff is. I barely know a flapper. lol

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ropp

· #19 · May 21, 2022

The popping from the exhaust is the lean running, the style of exhaust can alter "back pressure" from exhaust to engine, the K&N filter will allow more air into the engine , and if you take it to a Dyno they would probably put one in for the set-up, but if you have a stock filter lying around pop it in and try that ,as regards the flapper in the box you can take it right out and block any holes with small nuts and bolts in the cable holes, the air filter first though, there's alot of arguing about K&N filters

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