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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
here is the thing:

I had a 2001 GMC Sierra Z-71, short bed, reg cab. When I would come to a stop, at a stop sign, the ABS would come on for no reason...or what was thought to be no reason. When I say, it came on, it would give me that "pushback grind on the brake lever feeling" Now, with my 2003 Tacoma, quadcab doing the same thing I know its not the truck...its ABS in general. The thing is...if I am using my breaks slightly, and I hit washboards, or even a small bump...ABS will come on. For those of you that do not know what washboards are...its the small evenly placed bumps that appear on dirt packed roads from cars accelerating...then it becomes larger, and looks/feels like possi hop. I am even noticing it going over a quick bump (frost heave) here this winter...well when ABS comes on it feels like its robbing about 40% of my braking power...making quick stops impossible.

anyone else feeling this?
 

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I think I saw you driving around yesterday...the Tacoma with the shattered windshield on the passenger's side, right? :D
 

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It's proven that ABS causes longer braking distances for the experienced driver. If you know how to properly brake under adverse conditions, I recommend that you turn it off completely. If you are the guy that just hammers on the brakes regardless of conditions... well... you're screwed either way.
 

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That is the same problem that i have in my 325 and i can't stand it. i always end up stopping further than i would in my camry without abs
 

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nomad said:
It's proven that ABS causes longer braking distances for the experienced driver. If you know how to properly brake under adverse conditions, I recommend that you turn it off completely. If you are the guy that just hammers on the brakes regardless of conditions... well... you're screwed either way.
I'd like to see the report. Till then, I don't believe it.
 

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nedro said:
I'd like to see the report. Till then, I don't believe it.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs2_e.htm#stop
http://www.safety-council.org/quiz/absa.htm

I've read quite a few articles on the subject... just a matter of re-finding them to post links here. I'll add a few more as they are googled.

[edit: The links I am finding claim it is about the same although I have seen the test (and with my own eyes) where the distance is somewhat shorter - even on dry pavement. Remember, my qualification is that an EXPERIENCED driver does the braking. Most ABS tests are "What happens if we both slam on the brakes."]

Also... one last point, the fastest braking on snow, gravel or slush is actually done with the car sideways. Yeah... ok, you guys from Ohio don't try this, I've seen you drive in snow, but for the rest of the snow-drivers, getting it sideways isn't such a bad thing if it's controlled. Anyone wanna drive with me? I'll show ya! :smilebig:
 

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ND4SPD said:
It's true on dry pavement. I can stop a car faster w/o ABS than with. Wet/snow is a bit more challanging, but can still be done.
I think Conq needs to snoop this one. BTW, What were to peramiters of the tests you performed? Also, how many times did you repeat it and was the outcome the same on all tests? What were the temps that day? Do you have a copy of the sumitted reports? How close were the readings between ABS and NON ABS in the snow? Were they the same in the wet?

One more thing. I hate "Seat of the Pants" Dynos.
 

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Blah. I'm having trouble finding the study in which it compares the distances. However, the theory goes like this.

If a driver hits the brakes and triggers ABS, for each pulse, there is a finite distance in which the wheel travels. These distances add up to be a non-trivial amount.
For a GOOD driver to brake, they can feel when/if the wheel is going to slip and adjust accordingly so that maximum braking is being appied at all times.
In theory, a perfect driver can out brake ABS, in reality the GOOD driver can outbrake ABS but not by huge amounts.

** Caveat... in the snow/gravel/slush even mediocre drivers can outperform ABS.

Also, realise that in most of these tests they are comparing "just jamming on the brakes" and not other brake mechanisms like down-shifting or pumping the brakes etc.
 

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nedro said:
I think Conq needs to snoop this one. BTW, What were to peramiters of the tests you performed? Also, how many times did you repeat it and was the outcome the same on all tests? What were the temps that day? Do you have a copy of the sumitted reports? How close were the readings between ABS and NON ABS in the snow? Were they the same in the wet?

One more thing. I hate "Seat of the Pants" Dynos.
Data? I have no data besides personal experience. It was enough to convince me, I didn't need someone else to tell me.
 

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Phew..... :metoo:
I thought it was just my cars brakes were messed up my 525i.
Id be rolling into a parking spot and hit the brakes as there was a small hole or ditch, on the pavement and ABS kicks in. Freakin me out cuz Im going slow. After further investigation, this is normal and they are just doing what supposed to do, if one tire slips while others spinning reguardless of speed, ABS kicks in. I just hate that pulsating feeling, you can feel it.
 

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One of the things that modern ABS systems does very well is let you steer while you emergencybrake. An average driver WILL step on the pedal and lock the wheels in an emergency.. Locked wheels will not steer, and I believe this makes the ABS a very good safety system even if it might make the distance to stop slightly longer under some conditions.

An ABS system which "regulates" without having momentarily locked/nearly locked one of the wheels (like when aproaching a stop sign on a dry paved road) could have a faulty sensor. This could tell the ECU that one of the wheels rotates slower than the rest, and will release the pressure on the brake fluid on that wheel. This is what happens when you feel the pedal pulsating.

I consider myself a normal driver with lot's of driving experience (because it's FUN) but I know from driving courses that I can not do better than ABS and other stability systems like ESP in some situations.

:)
 

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Fire929blade said:
An ABS system which "regulates" without having momentarily locked/nearly locked one of the wheels (like when aproaching a stop sign on a dry paved road) could have a faulty sensor.
Could be a faulty sensor, but it's very easy to lock a wheel on the "downside" of a bump, while that wheel is momentarily un-weighted. Maybe the problem is slow suspension. :D Modern ABS can be really sensitive.
 

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nomad said:
It's proven that ABS causes longer braking distances for the experienced driver. If you know how to properly brake under adverse conditions, I recommend that you turn it off completely. If you are the guy that just hammers on the brakes regardless of conditions... well... you're screwed either way.

Ummm....that sounds like BS to me....defies logic... :huh:
 

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Baketech said:
Ummm....that sounds like BS to me....defies logic... :huh:

Most car rags say what Nomad says is true. It's also been mentioned in Sport Rider about bikes. One reason being the cycle time ( of the pulse) of the weak/strong braking means threshhold level braking time is reduced when compared to a very good driver. :idunno: I'm sure as systems improve the computer will do better and better.

I hate the modern ABS, no pedal feel. My truck (2002 GMC) is forever doing weird stuff.

It makes sense most cars would do it as most manufacturers use subcon'd parts for things like this. So only a few companies (like Bosch) actually make ABS stuff.
 

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luvtolean said:
Most car rags say what Nomad says is true. It's also been mentioned in Sport Rider about bikes....


What I have read in numerous places is that drivers that attempt to use threshold braking on an ABS equipped vehicle have longer braking distances than drivers that just "stomp it".

What this means to me, is that if you are truly an "driver", then you will adopt the technique needed to match the vehicle, and thus your braking distances would be equal....
 
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