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Discussion Starter #1
Time for your daily dose of Apple iKoolAid:

From http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/8206/

On October 6, 1997, in response to the question of what he'd do if he was in charge of Apple Computer, Dell founder and then CEO Michael Dell stood before a crowd of several thousand IT executives and answered flippantly, "What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders."

A little more than a month later, on November 10, 1997, new Apple iCEO Steve Jobs responded, speaking in front of an image of Michael Dell's bulls-eye covered face, "We're coming after you, you're in our sights."

Today, after a little more than eight years of hard work, Apple Computer, Inc. passed Dell, Inc. in market value. That's right, at market close Apple Computer ($72,132,428,843) is now worth more than Dell ($71,970,702,760). Got any snappy responses for that one, Mr. Dell?
 

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Payback is a bitch. I wonder if Jobs® sent him an e-mail or called? I would. :evilaugh:
 

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After reading that they've sold over 30 million iClods, I find it curious that it's still called Apple "Computer"... :huh:
 

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I wonder what aPple would be like if they ran/promoted their systems with Windows OR OSX?

I'll admit, many of their newer designs are at the very least mechanically superior to the stuff running down the assembly line next to it designed by Dell and others.
 

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The good ol' tech cycle. Dell became what they themselves set out to destroy. They aimed for the world leader at the time, Compaq, destroyed them and became them.
Time for a new alpha male that will in turn be devoured by the next.
 

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BDA116 said:
The good ol' tech cycle. Dell became what they themselves set out to destroy. They aimed for the world leader at the time, Compaq, destroyed them and became them.
Time for a new alpha male that will in turn be devoured by the next.
Yep when you try to be the cheapest solution there is never enough cheap
 

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Baketech said:
After reading that they've sold over 30 million iClods, I find it curious that it's still called Apple "Computer"... :huh:
com·put·er
n.
  1. A device that computes, especially a programmable electronic machine that performs high-speed mathematical or logical operations or that assembles, stores, correlates, or otherwise processes information.
Apple is still a computer company. They're just not a PC (Wintel) company. Yet.
 

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Market Value, what's that? Is the same measurement that had Palm ahead of GM the day they went public? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

How about sales income or P/S as value? I haven't looked it up but I bet Dell does hell of a lot better there, but I am willing to be proved wrong...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hmmm.... I am looking all around for more information, but it seems that most companies have not yet released CQ4 numbers that are pretty crucial to a consumer oriented company. Apple announced 5.7 bn in revenue for the quarter, but Dell has not yet announced.

In the end, I would assume that Dell has the larger revenue stream, but piss-weak margins. Plus, the areas they are expanding to are also VERY razor-thin, i.e. plasma TVs. Their saving grace is their professional services arm, which is traditionally VERY margin rich.

On the other hand, Apple typically commands a higher price for their products, and until very recently didn't have a "direct" competitor technology wise (PPC vs x86). But it would appear that their new Mactel laptops and iMacs are going to have very close price parity with Dell and HP, which gets consumers in the door. I would venture to guess that Apple is willing to let a little margin slip to get more Macs in homes to go along with their very margin rich iPods, which in turn also drives up "Pro" mac sales a la G5 and XServe/XRAID. Don't forget all the other accessories that Apple makes a killing on, such as the 10% iPod tax.

Also, being in the IT sector I can already tell you that a LOT of hard core geeks are just drooling over the possibility of a dual-dual-core desktop screamer machine running OSX with some type of windows emulation or VMWare. The nirvana of bulletproof UNIX under the hood with the sweet GUI, and gobs of desktop apps is close at hand. Plus Apple's machines just LOOK cooler, which is a huge deal for the Alpha IT Geek. Don't be surprised if you start seeing the Mac slowly showing up in the Corporate Arena, albeit under the radar.

The other area Apple can really start to compete in is the CPU intensive workstation space. Once the Mactel workstation comes out, with a 64 bit clean OS, and the ability to run Windows apps in some kind of jail, they will begin to penetrate that revenue and margin rich environment as well. Think high-tech R&D, bio-tech, pharmaceutical, and energy.

I guess what I am getting at is that Dell is aiming for the consumer area, where CE companies have already made the margins unbelievably small. Apple on the other hand is letting the Dells, Sonys, and Samsungs of the world have that, and are instead aiming squarely at the margin rich professional computing space... and doing it with a product line that is quickly becoming second to none. This in turn raises profits and dividends.
 

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navydevildoc said:
Hmmm.... I am looking all around for more information, but it seems that most companies have not yet released CQ4 numbers that are pretty crucial to a consumer oriented company. Apple announced 5.7 bn in revenue for the quarter, but Dell has not yet announced.

In the end, I would assume that Dell has the larger revenue stream, but piss-weak margins. Plus, the areas they are expanding to are also VERY razor-thin, i.e. plasma TVs. Their saving grace is their professional services arm, which is traditionally VERY margin rich.

On the other hand, Apple typically commands a higher price for their products, and until very recently didn't have a "direct" competitor technology wise (PPC vs x86). But it would appear that their new Mactel laptops and iMacs are going to have very close price parity with Dell and HP, which gets consumers in the door. I would venture to guess that Apple is willing to let a little margin slip to get more Macs in homes to go along with their very margin rich iPods, which in turn also drives up "Pro" mac sales a la G5 and XServe/XRAID. Don't forget all the other accessories that Apple makes a killing on, such as the 10% iPod tax.

Also, being in the IT sector I can already tell you that a LOT of hard core geeks are just drooling over the possibility of a dual-dual-core desktop screamer machine running OSX with some type of windows emulation or VMWare. The nirvana of bulletproof UNIX under the hood with the sweet GUI, and gobs of desktop apps is close at hand. Plus Apple's machines just LOOK cooler, which is a huge deal for the Alpha IT Geek. Don't be surprised if you start seeing the Mac slowly showing up in the Corporate Arena, albeit under the radar.

The other area Apple can really start to compete in is the CPU intensive workstation space. Once the Mactel workstation comes out, with a 64 bit clean OS, and the ability to run Windows apps in some kind of jail, they will begin to penetrate that revenue and margin rich environment as well. Think high-tech R&D, bio-tech, pharmaceutical, and energy.

I guess what I am getting at is that Dell is aiming for the consumer area, where CE companies have already made the margins unbelievably small. Apple on the other hand is letting the Dells, Sonys, and Samsungs of the world have that, and are instead aiming squarely at the margin rich professional computing space... and doing it with a product line that is quickly becoming second to none. This in turn raises profits and dividends.
Word. :thumb:
 

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I'm not going to talk about their business model, because I don't know apple's strategy. I'd bet apple is hungrily eyeing the lower margin desktop space, but we'll see. Their new laptop definately crashed margins in notebooks. Forever.

I don't think the "Apple in simulation" will happen on a large scale with OSX unless you can direct boot Windows. The "helpdesk" guys at most medium sized companies cannot support Apple, and therefore there are specific rules banning their purchase for us non-IT geeks. Emulators have always been available, and this did not ever save them.

Sun has been able to sneak in, but this is mostly legacy attitudes. If I were to go try to argue with a VP about my needs for a high dollar Apple, to them a school computer/MP3 player company, I think the road is tough. Especially since they can tell me just to buy a Precision workstation from our preferred vendor.

Small R&D firms will have the choice, but I still bet they stick to cheaper machines like roll your own multi-node machines.

In my company no matter how much I wanted one, I couldn't get it. I think this will be the same at most.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
luvtolean said:
I'm not going to talk about their business model, because I don't know apple's strategy. I'd bet apple is hungrily eyeing the lower margin desktop space, but we'll see. Their new laptop definately crashed margins in notebooks. Forever.

I don't think the "Apple in simulation" will happen on a large scale with OSX unless you can direct boot Windows. The "helpdesk" guys at most medium sized companies cannot support Apple, and therefore there are specific rules banning their purchase for us non-IT geeks. Emulators have always been available, and this did not ever save them.

Sun has been able to sneak in, but this is mostly legacy attitudes. If I were to go try to argue with a VP about my needs for a high dollar Apple, to them a school computer/MP3 player company, I think the road is tough. Especially since they can tell me just to buy a Precision workstation from our preferred vendor.

Small R&D firms will have the choice, but I still bet they stick to cheaper machines like roll your own multi-node machines.

In my company no matter how much I wanted one, I couldn't get it. I think this will be the same at most.
Some of these are valid points... but I should point out that Windows 'emulation' is a misnomer... it would actually run at clock cycle speed, since Apple no longer has to truly emulate the whole x86 architecture. In fact, some windows apps run faster on Linux WINE than they do in Windows.

Also, it's the IT people that make the standards... up to now they haven't wanted to support 2 desktop platforms, but now that line is becoming blurred. Also, Microsoft has already announced that Windows Vista (bleh) will boot on the EFI-based Mactels, something XP cannot do. Most IT shops have to support a myriad of systems anyway. There are major differences between Win 9x, NT351, NT4, 2K, and XP (which has 4 variants just by itself), and now Vista, which will have *7* variants. Some even have to support UNIX machines such as Linux and Sun workstations. Being able to wrangle that space into one box that can run their regular Windows apps plus their CPU intesive apps saves money in the long run. Add to that the time saved with not having to mitigate the latest Windows hole or virus, and it adds up.

I know that all the large help desks I have seen rarely take OS-related calls... mainly password resets and app related strangeness. If it's OS related, its usually because windows barfed on itself.

It will only take one major company to let it slip that they are going to start looking at Apple, and then all the other lemming-like CIOs will go "Wow, company X is doing it, maybe we should look at it".

But you made the most important point of all... most people think of Apple as the "school computer and iPod" company. But, if there is one thing Apple does well, it's marketing and PR. If they got smart, and I bet you they are, they will fix that perception quickly.
 

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navydevildoc said:
But you made the most important point of all... most people think of Apple as the "school computer and iPod" company. But, if there is one thing Apple does well, it's marketing and PR. If they got smart, and I bet you they are, they will fix that perception quickly.
Good, 'cuz I hate to be stereotyped as a metro :smilebig:
 

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Is corporate watchdog software, anti-virus, network, e-mail, Peoplesoft type systems, all the same across platforms? (I also happen to know NONE of the serious engineering software I use is currently written for OSX, which is an obstacle you have to get the simulation companies of the world thinking they need to overcome.)

If not that is a huge PITA. Now if you don't install all that shit for both OS's on every single machine, you've got the possibility of unmonitored/unprotected computers on the company network.

Of course, now IT people will have to update two OS's on Apple user's computers, and worry about viruses in both formats.

In the CAD world they talk about the billions of dollars lost on time/work from changing file formats. (and if you don't think Dell is good at marketing...)

I don't see a reason for corporations to change to Apple. Even if there is a slight performance advantage.

Like I said, if an Apple will not direct boot into Windows without OSX installed on the hard drive, I'm not buying apple getting much penetration into the corporate application user market.
 

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Symantec already has AV software for the home user available for the Mac. I guarantee you it wouldn't take much more to make a corporate version since they already have part if not all of the technology.

Exchange integrates with Mac Office without a hitch.

Keeping Windows patched is a breeze with WSUS. I haven't messed with Mac's server software(yet) but if things were to head in that direction I don't think they'd think twice about coming up with a central update solution.
 

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Yeah, but again. WHY?!

Windows is here. It works. Well. And the world is literally designed around it.
 
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