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Stiffer speeding penalties for leading rideout - | Motorcycle News | Bike News | Motorbike Videos | MCN

Absolutely ludicrous.

Motorcyclists at the head of a group of riders will face stiffer penalties for speeding under a crown court ruling.
Being the lead rider in a group is an aggravating factor making you partly responsible for speeding offences of those behind you according to the decision.
The ruling can be applied in any future cases where two or more motorcyclists riding together are accused of speeding. The head rider might be only a few mph over the limit but could be given the same penalty as the worst offender behind.
Road traffic solicitor Robert Dobson said: “Any crown court decision can be stated in future cases. This is potentially a very dangerous judgement for motorcyclists.
"Riders in a group change position frequently.
“If you are riding at the front any group at excess speed, then the very fact you’re at the front is an aggravating factor.”
Ken Clark, 49, reached 85mph on his Yamaha R1 while leading a group of three riders on the 60mph A272 near Rogate, Sussex, last June.
The speed is within the usual threshold for a fixed penalty of three points and a £60 fine.
But Chichester Crown Court ruled he should receive the same penalty as a following rider accused of going 103mph.
Barrister notes on the ruling given to Clark after the hearing state: ‘Although his was the lesser speed, [the bench] found it an aggravating feature that he was the lead motorcyclist, was setting the pace and he knew that the other two motorcyclists would want to catch him up and would be speeding to do so.’
The court rejected Clark’s appeal against six points, a £100 fine and £250 court costs.
Clark said: “This should have been three points and a £60 fine but so far it’s cost me £2,500 including solicitors’ bills and I have six points on a licence which has been clean for the last 24 years.”
Clark’s solicitor, Philip Somarakis, said 103mph was the speed reached by a police officer on an unmarked bike while tailing Clark's two friends, but the prosecution accepted it was not possible to prove from video evidence that Clark himself had exceeded 85mph.
“The gist of the ruling is that to be a lead motorcyclist makes you somehow responsible for the actions of those behind you,” he added.
Gary Baldwin, former police motorcyclist and co-director of advanced riding school Rapid Training, said: “It's a dangerous precedent to suggest you are now responsible for someone who's in control of another vehicle.
"How do I control what they do? If someone is following me and I get in an overtake that they don't, they may go faster to catch up but that is their choice.”
To read how the prosecuting cop posted pictures on a swingers’ website showing him astride a police bike, get MCN, on sale now.
 
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That article has prompted a lot of debate over here on bike forums.... no surprises!

I think MCN have done their usual trick of making it all seem a lot worse than it is - apparently, from what I have found out (which may still be wrong) Crown Courts cannot set legal precidents -these are set in the High Court or Appeal Court.

Also, I have heard from a police officer that the fixed penalty fine is indeed £60 and 3 points for doing 85mph, but if you choose to go to court and are found guilty then more points can be given with an income-related fine.

The article conveniently misses out these points, and we have no idea whether the rider chose to go to court or not.

Anyway, even if the above points are correct, in this instance it seems to me that the ride leader did get a harsh punishment for being the ride leader, and I guess if it's happened before it can happen again.

And it is yet another example of how screwed up the UK is .......
 

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I would think that would make more people try and run.

BINGO!!

I'm sorry ... I'm all for the idea of pulling over and taking your meds from the cop because you were "Doing Wrong In A Do Right Zone" but to hell with taking meds because some jack ass rider that showed up last min to one of my rides decides he's gonna act the fool!

Example 1) You lead a ride where you know all the riders pretty well but you have a few slower people mixed in. A couple of your more experienced riders hang back a couple turns so they too can enjoy the ride. Now because my last 3 riders wished to enjoy themselves I'm owed an equal ticket??

Example 2) What if someone wrecks? Am I now owed the same ticket he's gonna get?

This will have the exact same result as when our wonderfull state of VA (gotta love a commonwealth) decided they could stop all speeding if they just TRIPPLE and some times more the fines attached. Though they really did it to try and get more money out of the residents of VA. The way I saw it if I was gonna get pulled for 15 mph or more over it was worth it to me to run. To hell with paying upwards of $2000 (yes there are documented cases of people paying that) if all I have to do is get away. I know I wasn't the only person who felt like that. The problem is it did exactly as I feared ... prompted running, which prompted cops to BREAK a standing NO CHASE rule which resulted in several horrific deaths. They were not all bikes either but a few were. It was over turned with the quickness!

Good luck to you all where this retarded law applies!!! Make smart choices when you ride ... that being said ... I understand!!!
 

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Sounds like they were doing 85 and the cop did 103 to catch them. Regardless the idea that you are responsible for others actions because they are following you is insane
 

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:hmm:..... last time I rode on my own, I caught up and passed some other riders*.....

... bet they woulda loved me if they got tickets too:evilaugh:

*I may have been a tad over the posted limit:idunno:
 

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:hmm:..... last time I rode on my own, I caught up and passed some other riders*.....

... bet they woulda loved me if they got tickets too:evilaugh:

*I may have been a tad over the posted limit:idunno:
That was my other thought ... if my ride gets pulled over I'd swear to God I didn't know a single one of them and claim they decided to catch up to me!! Sorry guys! :rotfl:
 

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hmm. does this happen to all bikes or just "sport bikes" or "crotch rockets" as people love to call them...........?? i see packs of hogs all the time speeding and the NEVER get pulled over............do cops think that is cool or what???
 

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Spot on...thats the way to go, now you know the law be prepared, if you get a tug you dont know them from Adam, you were out for a ride and they cought you up. There is no way on earth they can prove other wise. As with most Laws, as long as you know you are breaking it , you have a way of dealing with it. Most of all as with all biking matters "be prepared for everything".
 

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That was my other thought ... if my ride gets pulled over I'd swear to God I didn't know a single one of them and claim they decided to catch up to me!! Sorry guys! :rotfl:
I'd go as far as denying I knew SSB if we were out together!!!!! :rotfl:
 

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in kentucky it seems like cruiser country. they ride very slow. all bikers know good rodes. i passed a parade of goldwings a few months ago and they caught up to me 10 miles later at shell. they said i needed to slow down and enjoy my ride. i told them i was enjoying it. i filled up and did a rolling burn out for them.
 

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Cool - as all my mates are generally faster riders (aka better) I can point my finger and just shout "They made me do it."

excellent ruling and they should take it further to say the guy at the back gets off Scot-free...:rolleyes:
 

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Cool - as all my mates are generally faster riders (aka better) I can point my finger and just shout "They made me do it."

excellent ruling and they should take it further to say the guy at the back gets off Scot-free...:rolleyes:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 

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I ride by myself allot. I wonder how that works.:eyebrows:
Um, well oscifer,you see, I, umm was trying to catch up to that group way in front of me. Oscifer; Wow! that explains why I clocked you at 160mph. Gee, I guess you really were trying to catch up to your butties. Well, in that case, I'll just put these braceletts on you, while you wait for me catch them too.:crap: Oh, and have a seat in the back for me.:crying:
 

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Sorry to hear that as giving a lead rider a steeper penalty doesn't seem fair. In the states for the most part if you get caught the penalty is the same for the entire group. However, if the group is courteous and not being squids the cop if you're lucky will let you go with a warning.




That article has prompted a lot of debate over here on bike forums.... no surprises!

I think MCN have done their usual trick of making it all seem a lot worse than it is - apparently, from what I have found out (which may still be wrong) Crown Courts cannot set legal precidents -these are set in the High Court or Appeal Court.
...
Anyway, even if the above points are correct, in this instance it seems to me that the ride leader did get a harsh punishment for being the ride leader, and I guess if it's happened before it can happen again.

And it is yet another example of how screwed up the UK is .......
 

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in kentucky it seems like cruiser country. they ride very slow. all bikers know good rodes. i passed a parade of goldwings a few months ago and they caught up to me 10 miles later at shell. they said i needed to slow down and enjoy my ride. i told them i was enjoying it. i filled up and did a rolling burn out for them.
Thanks for confirming the stereotype that sportbike riders are all squids :rant:

IF you wanted to have a comeback; "I would but I needed to get away from the sound of your stereos"
 
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