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Discussion Starter #1
I have been looking at weights of bikes trying to understand why they seems so random. I have also been trying to figure out why my 929 steers so heavy compared to my friends 600's. I know its obvious but I want to look deeper and discover why. is it reciprocating mass of the engine? or just weight and where its placed in the chassis?

anyways I am starting by asking what is the actual weight of our fire blades of all years? 900, 929, 954, 1000? I mean as they sit in out driveways and car ports not dry weight.

secondly I would like some insight as to what factors most contribute to how flickable a bike is and what can i do as a rider to get my bike leaned over quicker.

dammit i should have never ridden by buddy's 09 600rr home from the dealership. That bike steers really fast! makes my 929 feel like a tank. Although i feel a lot more stable on the 929 and it fits my hang off riding style a bit better since i feel precariously perched atop the 600rr and it puts too much weight on my wrists while not giving me enough tank to grip with my legs.

I guess i'm beggining to understand the balance between a 600 and a literbike as a simple tradeoff between power and manuverability.

I'm sure with technique i can increase the manuverability of my bike in the canyons
 

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Centralized mass. A bike can weigh 500 lbs be very turnable, as long as the mass is centered and low. {Centered and Low} These are the key words in bike design. There are other words such as, "forward placement", used along with, "off center in low placement". This can be the reason why a 929 will feel like a truck, as compaired to a 600. It all depends on where the mass is localized in reference to center of gravity. A CBR1000RR is claimed to be 366 lbs empty and add fuel, oils + me = 645 lbs approximately:O . I change the center of gravity more than oils and fuel do. I suppose now I will go on a diet:hmm: . Thats enough for school today.
 

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anyways I am starting by asking what is the actual weight of our fire blades of all years? 900, 929, 954, 1000? I mean as they sit in out driveways and car ports not dry weight.

secondly I would like some insight as to what factors most contribute to how flickable a bike is and what can i do as a rider to get my bike leaned over quicker.
I've been weighing my bikes since 1990 and they've always been very close to the claimed dry weights. Well within the accuracy of the scales used.
Dry weight generally does not include oil, coolant, battery or fuel.
My 929 last time I weighed it was 163kg ready to race without fuel.

Wet and dry weights - Honda Motorcycle Weight, Horsepower, Torque and Fuel Economy - Dimensions - Sport Rider

This one lets you compare power curves - Sportbike Dyno Charts - Sportbike Review - Sport Rider

And performance - Street Bike Motorcycle Performance Numbers - Quarter Mile Times - Sport Rider

As already said, you want to get as much as possible of the mass of the bike into the smallest volume in the centre of the bike and as low down as possible. On my racebikes I aim to remove at least ten percent of the dry weight and the difference is very noticeable. Ten percent is doable reasonably easily but more than that gets difficult and expensive.

Some _rough_ numbers:
On a modern 180kg 1000cc sportsbike (wet without fuel) the engine is around 90kg including exhaust system, radiator, airbox, coolant and oil.
The biggest saving you can make here is generally in the exhaust system with a full titanium racing system weighing as little as 4kg including the muffler. Removing the starting and charging systems can save you as much as 8kg.

Frame, seat, clamps, bars, tank, harness and ECU are around 25kg.
The biggest saving here is generally the fuel tank by going to aluminium or carbon and a smaller fuel pump. Being the highest weight on the bike it's well worth the expense. On top of this you have roughly another 13kg of fuel so don't carry more than you actually need.

The wheels, discs, calipers, forks, swingarm, shock, chain and sprocket and tyres (the unsprung weight) are around 50kg.
Here, carbon wheels are the biggest saving (as much as 6-7kg) but are very expensive. Magnesium mono-block (meaning less steel bolts) calipers are another good saving but again are very expensive.
Magnesium wheels are the best dollar value and well worth it as it improves braking, acceleration, steering and suspension operation.
Going to 520 chain and aluminium sprocket saves 1kg which also reduces horespower losses from the engine in the same way as a lighter rear wheel. For dollar value it's right up there.

The plastics, lights, mirrors and rear subframe are around 15kg.
A lightweight fibreglass race fairing set and replacing all the lights (including the headlight) with smaller ones and replacing the front and rear subframes and rear guard can cut this by a third or more.
 

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Changes to your suspension, bike geometry, and tire profiles can greatly improve the flickability of a 929...
 

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I'm not sure I'd feel right on a bike that weighs less than I do (with gear on of course). Not to say that it may not be fun...
 

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tyre profile also makes a very big difference in flickability. Go from 190/50 rear to a 180/55 and you will see a significant change (on the expence of stability).
 

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:rotfl: Yep, school is on now. I like this subject.:)
 

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:rotfl: Yep, school is on now. I like this subject.:)
So do I :)
I have 500g, 5kg, 10kg and 30kg scales on my workbench as well as a pair of bathroom scales :)
I totally stripped my ZX6R down to a bare engine when I replaced the frame and took the opportunity to weigh everything.
I also weigh everything when I have it off my bikes and record it all in spreadsheets.
The 929 is the only one (so far) I've been able to also weigh all of the internal engine parts.
 

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So do I :)
I have 500g, 5kg, 10kg and 30kg scales on my workbench as well as a pair of bathroom scales :)
I totally stripped my ZX6R down to a bare engine when I replaced the frame and took the opportunity to weigh everything.
I also weigh everything when I have it off my bikes and record it all in spreadsheets.
The 929 is the only one (so far) I've been able to also weigh all of the internal engine parts.

So where are the 929 weights? Post them up!
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
intersting stuff. I would deffinatly be interested in doing what i can to get the bike a little more flickable. I only spend 4k on the bike so I'm not that into putting thousands into this bike but setup changes, perhaps tire changes and some minor sub 400.00 parts I can deffinatly do.

tell me about setup changes and how they effect handling and what about changing to a 180 tire? will it be noticable?
 

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There is such a thing as,> Unsprung weight. I think everybody know's this.:cool: What would be good to note is this; All the sport bikes in existance from 2000 on, have been given very light rims. Rims of course, are like gyroscopes. To lighten a rim can mean a certian amount of ease in turning,(flickabillity), because, you have lessened the gyroscopic effect that makes a wheel, and tire assembly want to stand straight up, during rotation. This is a natural effect of anything that is round, on a single plane, like a wheel. Not exactly a ball, a wheel.;) If you have the money, a pair of Marchesini rims, Dymags, Marvic, ect, made of magnezium are probably the best choices for street use. They are expensive:eek: . Then there is Carbon fibre, Carbon/Kevlar composite rims. just as, if not, more expensive.
Look at the type of brake disc material. Ductle Iron discs are the best for stopping power. Then there are laminate discs that are a sandwich of alluminium and stainless, very light but, not long lasting, steel discs, and last but not least, are the very light discs made of carbon fibre.(Unless you like black lung, I don't recomend carbon fibre discs.)
As for weight saving's, the purchase of a set of discs from any of the companies out there, are not really going to make a big change in wieght. More likely a performance gain is all you will get, not bad, but not much of a chance to lighten your bike in unsprung wieght. I prefer ductle Iron for discs with metalic pads. I do like to stop once in a while :thumb:. One day, when I grow up, I will buy me a pair of Marchesini rims.
Some people think that titanium axles are lighter because it takes less material to make a titanium part vise a steel part. Brake either material and you find out what it really means to spend money. Steel is best, Stainless is better, and Titanium is just plain expensive. Use that,(titanium), in your valves or rods.
Unsprung weight is; rims, tires, disc's, axles, bearings, calipers, and fork sliders. Fork sliders and calipers may be debattable, but it is everything not carried by a spring. There are usually three now, for a sport bike,(spring's).
 

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There is such a thing as,> Unsprung weight. I think everybody know's this.:cool: What would be good to note is this; All the sport bikes in existance from 2000 on, have been given very light rims. Rims of course, are like gyroscopes. To lighten a rim can mean a certian amount of ease in turning,(flickabillity), because, you have lessened the gyroscopic effect that makes a wheel, and tire assembly want to stand straight up, during rotation. This is a natural effect of anything that is round, on a single plane, like a wheel. Not exactly a ball, a wheel.;) If you have the money, a pair of Marchesini rims, Dymags, Marvic, ect, made of magnezium are probably the best choices for street use. They are expensive:eek: . Then there is Carbon fibre, Carbon/Kevlar composite rims. just as, if not, more expensive.
Look at the type of brake disc material. Ductle Iron discs are the best for stopping power. Then there are laminate discs that are a sandwich of alluminium and stainless, very light but, not long lasting, steel discs, and last but not least, are the very light discs made of carbon fibre.(Unless you like black lung, I don't recomend carbon fibre discs.)
As for weight saving's, the purchase of a set of discs from any of the companies out there, are not really going to make a big change in wieght. More likely a performance gain is all you will get, not bad, but not much of a chance to lighten your bike in unsprung wieght. I prefer ductle Iron for discs with metalic pads. I do like to stop once in a while :thumb:. One day, when I grow up, I will buy me a pair of Marchesini rims.
Some people think that titanium axles are lighter because it takes less material to make a titanium part vise a steel part. Brake either material and you find out what it really means to spend money. Steel is best, Stainless is better, and Titanium is just plain expensive. Use that,(titanium), in your valves or rods.
Unsprung weight is; rims, tires, disc's, axles, bearings, calipers, and fork sliders. Fork sliders and calipers may be debattable, but it is everything not carried by a spring. There are usually three now, for a sport bike,(spring's).
Modern wheels are reasonably light but they haven't gotten very much lighter since the late eighties.
Titanium axles are lighter because it only weighs two-thirds the weight of steel so I'm not sure what your point is. You can buy them and swingarm pivot bolts for around US$300 each or have them made yourself for less. Aluminium is one-third the weight of steel axles (half the weight of titanium) and still strong enough for the job but are illegal for racing. Although it is incredibly unlikely, if you were to seize a bearing on an aluminium axle it would _very_ rapidly heat the axle past its 600C melting point. I personally, don't consider it to be any different to having a seized bearing spinning in the hub as the result is the same.
Fork sliders, swingarm, linkages, damper cartridges, fork oil, calipers, front and rear guards, chain guards, sprockets, chain and springs are all unsprung weight. Brake hoses are considered to be unsprung although the fronts vary between full compression and extension. Under full compression the wheel is forcing the hoses into compression (causing them to bend out of the way) so the load can actually be more than their weight.
 

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Thanks Bladereacer,:O I'll just crawl back into my hole, from which I will just read the thread. No more absurd or erroneous preturbances in writting will come from me.:crap:
 

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Thanks Bladereacer,:O I'll just crawl back into my hole, from which I will just read the thread. No more absurd or erroneous preturbances in writting will come from me.:crap:
I didn't find anything incorrect with what you said though and it was all good info. I was merely adding to it. There certainly wasn't anything absurd or erroneous - not that I noticed anyway :)
Something I meant to add but forgot is that the ratio between sprung and unsprung weight is also important in how well the suspension works.
 

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Fork rake also plays a part in turning. Bend your forks back and you'll turn faster :smilebig:
My ZX6R has 3.8 degrees less rake than stock and it turns so much better than a stock one. It does have a slight tendency to want to tuck the front when you get it right over but not enough to be a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
well the first step is done. I installed my carbon fiber two brothers m5 bolt on today. Thats a few lbs right there I saved. sounds mean too. a little boomy at 2k though. I feel bad for my neighbors. the old one had a cat in it too.
 
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