Iron sleeves are much thinner than the aluminium ones and the increased capacity easily offsets the extra weight. 270kg/180hp gives 0.67hp pushing every kg so 0.5kg more weight is covered by an increase of just 0.33hp.
My GSXR1100 76mm iron sleeves are 3.5mm wall thickness and can be bored 1mm at least so 2.5mm must be more than strong enough even in twenty year old iron technology.
In comparison, the 954 75mm aluminium sleeves are 6.5mm wall thickness.
Calculated weights of the stock sleeve is 366gms, bored 1mm would be 340gms.
An iron 76mm sleeve with 3mm wall thickness would be 524gms, 2.5mm walls brings it down to 434gms.
There is a small power loss to friction with uncoated bores though so it would still be worth plating them.
An important consideration is that the thick aluminium sleeves soak heat from the rings very well, much better than steel. Hopefully the bigger 1000RR radiator should take care of that.
I'd consider 77mm to be the biggest you could reasonably take the 954. The side walls would have to be milled down to 2mm thick to butt against the adjacent sleeves which would be pushing reliability I think.
929ADAM - if you (or anybody else) get your 929 head off I'd like to know if the bore liners are the same 88mm outside diameter as the 954 or if they increased the wall thickness to be able to bore the 954 1mm.
If it's the same then I guess 6.5mm walls are as thin as Honda was willing to go without compromising longevity for road use.
If they did make the 954 walls thicker though then there's potential to go a little further.
I did alot of research last year regarding boring out & engine power increases. I came to the conclusion that it ultimately wasnt worth the money for me & ended up buying a K6 Gixxer instead. Still have the ol 954 but she is now 'relagated' to commuting duties as there's over 100,000 km on her.
I would also undercut the gear dogs while you have the motor apart - it'll stop any potential future geabox problems especially seeing looking to push major stomp out of the 954. Also you may want to increase the rev limit if you are running higher lift cams - I would possible advise stronger/lighter valves in this case though
However you are very welcome to my reasearch data & opinions. Let me know if I can help more!
Head Work
I would use this guy if I was getting the head done http://www.racedevelopments.co.uk/
Hi name is Tim Radley & he builds BSB engines all the time. His speciality is cylinder head porting & reshaping using epoxy putty to reshape the ports. The result is better breathing all through the rev range & he can get 10 - 20% increase in torque/power across the entire rev range with this process using only standard internals - amazing really. Check out the dynographs on the website for proof.
Aso I would fully endorse & recommend that you get one of these to retune you bike after all that engine work (I have one but not fitted it yet) Motty AFR Tuner
It will tune you engine to a set air/fuel ratio (set by you & fully adjustable) while your bike is on the road/track. You never need to visit a dyno shop again (unless you want power figures) & the best bit is if you ever change ANYTHING on the engine again it will automatically remap the fuelling within minutes. It truely is a gem of a device
IMHO I would also look at getting a set of those new BPF's (Big Piston Forks) of the 2009 Gixxer 1k or ZX6R & modify them to suit the 929/954. They are supposed to be leaps ahead of old style cartridge forks
G'day Kenny
Thanks for the ideas.
If I simply wanted to experience more power I would put the turbo on the 929 or my GSXR1000 K2. I want to build my own engine for the build itself. The goal is the building rather than the dyno chart at the end
I'm going to undercut the transmission as well as lighten everything in the box. The piston speed is already 20.5mps so I don't intend to increase the rev limit at all. The longer stroke increases the piston speed significantly so I'm going to decrease the rev limit to keep the same piston speed that Honda felt was reliably safe.
The threads from Jake boring his 929 +2mm are very interesting and makes it more important for me to find out if the 954 liners are thicker than the 929. It also makes it pretty clear that the 929/954 bores are indeed compatible with Nikasil so I've just written back to the local place to ask them again!
Even if I weren't stroking it I still wouldn't raise the rev limit as I think it's perfectly possible to get everything you need from the motor without needing more piston speed.
The links are great but being UK based makes then non-viable as I could send the case to the US three times for the cost of sending it to the UK just once and I would guess the price of the work done would be at least double US prices as well?
I already do my own porting including building up with epoxies and I already have the Wideband Commander for A/F tuning
The BPF's do look good and I have considered chasing some up in the future only for the weight saving as I haven't read anything about their actual performance yet.
I've seen the HPS 954 before and don't see what is so superb about it?
I really don't consider bolting on aesthetic parts to be "mods" since you aren't modifying anything.
Being a bit harsh about the HPS bike methinks It has a Blueprinted Engine, Head flowed & ported, Full System, Filter & PC3 custom map = 160rwHP. Other goodies are BST carbon fibre wheels, BRaking Wavey disks, K-Tech race fork internals, Nitron Race shock & then a miriad of other bolt ons when are great for muching the miles. As a man who has done 10,000km a month stints on the old girl I can relate to these mods!
Anyways - back to the real business.... Hardcore tuning!
The BPF's are supposed to drastically reduce the inital dive of the forks when you hit the brakes hard. One fork is used for compression damping & the other for rebound. Becasue the fork slider leg is used as the exterior wall of the damping piston it means that the piston is effectively 37mm diameter instead of the usual 20mm cartridge types. Thats about 3 times the damping area & means lighter 0 weight oil can be used which doesnt suffer the same variances in performances due to temperature changes as normal pistons/oil weights on conventional USD forks.
Thanks Kenny, will definately look into this. I've been looking at reducing crankcase pressure but it hadn't occurred to me that it was possible to reduce intake suction since that's what stuffs the go-juice into the cylinder.
Back torque has never been a problem for me.
I know what the BPF's are designed to do and the theory is great. Until we actually get to ride with them though it's tough to know if they'll actually be any better. Cartridges have had twenty years of intense development now and are working pretty well. And it'll be at least a year before they start selling BPF's for reasonable prices on Ebay as all sorts of people will be wanting to try them
Quick update.
US Chrome got back to me with a price of US$673 to bore my upper case 2mm over and re-plate. Plus postage to and from Wisconsin (with a piston for sizing) is still under half the price for Electrosil in Melbourne to do the same job and Electrosil won't warranty the job because of the Alusil incompatibility with their version of Nikasil. And US Chrome will have it done in two weeks - four weeks with postage each way.
I don't want to risk losing my block in the christmas mail deluge and I need to wait for the pistons to be made so I won't be doing anything with it until January.
Also got a ballpark price of A$700 for a set of custom aluminium rods.
EDIT: I should've mentioned that I asked US Chrome about boring 2mm over and they said they do lots of them and there's no problem with it. They do recommend not boring more than 2mm though. I did ask him to confirm the 954 bore liner is 1mm bigger than the 929 to allow for this though which I'll post when I know.
I know this is old Bladeracer but i am wondering if you have done any of this stuff yet? I am starting to look at options to get the bike to bust some tail on the street. I am mainly wanting to tear up a friend of mines 06 gixxer 1k with a power commander and exhaust. I am gearing it in a few weeks and and getting the rest of my exhaust from hindle. I am eventually going to get the bazzaz tuner. I have done airbox mod and doing the pair valve delete next week along with my gears and a speedohealer.
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