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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
OK:
Have a vaccuum pump. Used the vacuum pump on the left side then right side until no air was coming out either; twice. Did it the manual way 20 minutes lated without the vacuum pump and not air. Bleed the banjo bolt master cylinder area manual way two times; Then re-bleed the left and right calipers the manual way and no air was coming out the bleed tips at the calipers.

I roll the bike about 5 MPH and slowly squeeze the front brake and it slowly and consistlantly bottoms out on the throttle. This has been a two day event. I even did the zip tie the braked handle down overnight to get residual small air bubbles out.

If I'm sitting still and squeeze the brake it holds. Only after I start rolling and slowly apply the front brake the handle slowly make it's way to the throttle and stops and the bike rolls and the brakes do not hold.

Could the master cyclinder be the issue?
 

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OK:
Have a vaccuum pump. Used the vacuum pump on the left side then right side until no air was coming out either; twice. Did it the manual way 20 minutes lated without the vacuum pump and not air. Bleed the banjo bolt master cylinder area manual way two times; Then re-bleed the left and right calipers the manual way and no air was coming out the bleed tips at the calipers.

I roll the bike about 5 MPH and slowly squeeze the front brake and it slowly and consistlantly bottoms out on the throttle. This has been a two day event. I even did the zip tie the braked handle down overnight to get residual small air bubbles out.

If I'm sitting still and squeeze the brake it holds. Only after I start rolling and slowly apply the front brake the handle slowly make it's way to the throttle and stops and the bike rolls and the brakes do not hold.

Could the master cyclinder be the issue?
Sounds like the master to me. Why were you bleeding the brakes anyway? Was there an air in the system issue before you started? Oh ya a rebuild kit should fix you up.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I was bleeding the brakes because of the issue mentioned above. Hold the brake handle sitting still and it holds; roll the bike about 5MPH and the brake handle will slowly make its way the the throttle until it bottoms out. If I slowly pull the handle after rolling, then after it starts its track to the throttle I really put the squeese on the brake handle it stops and holds. SO it seems if I put a lot of force on the brake handle it stops and holds when rolling and completely stopped. If I roll and then slowly apply the brake it always works its way to the throttle. The brakes have been like this sence I bought the bike.


Input? Thanks for the input spookyjack.
 

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G'day Mate,

Are you losing any brake fluid at all? If not then it must be the master cylinder.

Cheers,
Dave
 

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just keep doing it until you get where it will hold. i work for honda and i have bleed brakes for littery 1 to 2 hours
 

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There's not something out of line is there ? - calipers, rotors, pads ??

When I crashed my 929 I bent one of the rotors (not suggesting you have done this by the way) and found the brake would hold when standing still, but as soon as that wobbly rotor came past the pads and pushed them back I'd have no brakes and 100% lever travel.

Cheers, Spanky.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks for the input. I just ordered the master cylinder innerds off bikebandit. Once I replace the stuff I'll report back.

To answer the questions:
I did bleed the brakes for 4 hours on Saturday and 2 hours today. Today was the best because I did not get any air out of the brakes at the calipers when yesterday I would see a small stream of bubbles. I did not see any fluid leaking from any banjo fitting or bleeders after the system was closed.
Accoding to the guy I bought it from it was not wrecked and I looked it over real good. The thing is in prestine shape.

I did notice that the rear brake reservoir was at the add and the front brakes were like new. He said he did burnouts; makes sense considering the rear tire was almost bald after 800 miles. If the front brakes were not used very much in 3 years could this cause the issue? It would be news to me for sure. Honestly; I was a jet mechanic for 21 year (Navy) and worked on cars about the same amount of time and motorcycles for about 6 and I have not come across this type of brake issue before. It doesn't feel like air because it's not spungy it's more of a bleed down/seepage issue and the sudden jolt of force on the brake handle may be putting pressure at just the right spot to hold pressure by positioning the rubber just right. Input?

Thanks all.
 

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I never got my 954 ones perfect, I think you need a top banjo bolt with a bleed nipple as that seems to be where the air hides. many people do it ok with a vacuum tool though.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Machinehead,
Could you post a link to where I can find such banjo bolt bleeder for a single line please. I'm not quite sure which one to get. I did order the speedbleeders for the calipers when ordering the mastercylinder innerds.

ALSO: This morning when riding into work if I apply a generous amount of pressure to the brake handle the brake handle holds, or does not work its way to the handle, but I stop really quick. I can tell bleeding the brakes helped but has not solved the problem.

Non-related side note. This is the first bike I've done a stoppie on without trying, really I didn't I was just trying to stop fast testing the brakes, like I did on my 01 ZX-9R. Meaning all the other bikes I've hand do not have brakes near what the 954 has. I LOVE IT. Can't wait till the thing is fixed. This 954 is a keeper. Still of subject: I'm so happy with this bike. I am amazed at its agility, speed, throttle response, brakes, sound, feel, color, smell, looks, seating (once I get my helibars) and the list goes on :thumb: Sorry just excited. :D
 

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now you're asking - I search some race suppliers here in the uk but can't remember where I was offered them for sale. I did not actually buy one, just looked. I eventually got the brakes feeling ok but took lots of bleeding - then sold the bike!!
 

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Keep bleeding...After the rebuild, of course. When I first replaced mine, the folks here at the dot org told me how, after I hit the "I can't get pressure to stay" wall, and it took like 3 solid days of adjusting (what the hell...We can't come up with better technology? Like sealed brake sets that never need fluid change?) but did eventually work.

Galfer Braided Superbike Lines...Love 'em; though, I do only have the regular ones on my 929...
 

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Best bet (and this works for any bike) is to use a large syringe and a bit of plastic hose, fill it with fluid, loosen the bleed nipple on the calliper and attach the plastic tube between the syringe and the nipple. Slowly depress the syringe and keep going till you see fluid in the reservoir. Then repeat the process on the other side.

You brakes will now be ready to rock.

Its called reverse bleeding... Its esp. useful on off roaders with long bendy lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OK funny thing happened today; They started working. WHY I DON'T KNOW! ARHHHHHHHH.. I'm over it. Guess a piston was not extending all the way or maybe even the rotor repositioned per a previous post but regradless they are working. Like I mentioned before the guy never used the front brake per the color of the fluid and amount after 3 years and the rear was almost out of fluid.

Conclusion: Wait and the answer will come. hehehehe Life is good. Hey! I even rode a stoppie today for about 20 feet. I just laughed and released slowly. I love my 954.

And by the way the guy actually put a 929 master cylinder on the bike. Very little brake handle movement and the brakes are on so controlling is quite a drill but I should learn them soon.

Thanks again for everyones input!
ciao
 

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I had a similar problem with my bike once. I removed the bleeder screws and used teflon tape ( plumbers tape ) on the threads. You may have possibly worn out the thread seal on the bleeder screws. Also use new copper washers whenever removing brake lines. Auto parts store has them. Another thing when working on the calipers or changing pads, always clean the grime built up on the outer diameter of the caliper pistons. When new pads are installed the pistons w/dirt and grime will be forced back behind the seals causing strife and poor braking.

These are just some tips for doing brakes...Honda makes a o-ring safe brake cleaner just for that very purpose. Do NOT use regular brake cleaner on calipers... it will ruin the seals. Also don't use the brake cleaner on your pads or get brake fluid on the pads - they'll be forever ruined.
 
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