Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I was wondering if any of you may be able to offer suggestions on a problem that I am having. I recently needed new tires, chain, and sprockets on my 929. I ended up going with a set of Pilot Road 2's and a 520 conversion kit (-1/+2). In the interest of saving some cash I did all the work myself.

When I got the bike back together I took it out for a test and noticed a "bumpy" feel to the ride. (here goes the part where I try to describe it). It's not a vibration or shaking, it occurs at a lower frequency than that (frequency=bumps/time). It feels as though one of my tires is rolling over a series of tiny speed bumps, or like one of my tires has a lump in it or something. I do not feel it while accelerating, but I do feel it when riding at constant speed or decelerating with tranny resistance or using either brake.

After the first test tide I rechecked the simple things like rear tire alignment, tire pressure, chain slack, correct placement of wheel spacers, and axle nut torques (didn't use a torque wrench first time but obtained one the second time around :idunno: ). If you guys have any ideas about what the problem may be I'd love to hear them. Here are some possibilities that I have in mind:

Tire out of balance- I attempted to balace the wheels on a windy 5 degree day (brrrrr). I must admit, I may not have gone the extra mile in assuring that they were perfect. However, even before I placed the weights they did not seem all that bad. Could a slightly out of balance wheel cause this type of situation?

Stiff chain link- This was my first motorcycle chain experience. Since I'm cheap I decided that a chain tool was too costly. Therefore, I cut the chain, pressed on the master face plate, and flange the rivets by other means. Long story short, it was a Beeeotch:crap: . But I got it together and I'm fairly satisfied with the results. The master link may be a tiny bit tighter than the rest, but it doesn't seem to kink or anything when I roll it back and forth in my carport. I also do not hear any clicking or popping coming from the chain area while riding. Figured I still needed to consider it as a possibility though.

Wheel bearing- It seems that if a wheel bearing were a problem then I would have experienced the bumpy ride before the latest round of part swaps (it may be possible that this was the case and I am only now noticing it due to paranoia :rolleyes: ). When I had the wheels off I rolled the bearings around with my finger and noticed that at least one of them had a slightly "catchy" spot. The bike has 20k miles on it, I am under the impression that bearings should last much longer than that :confused: . In any case, I suppose I could have done something to damage them while doing the work (over torquing the axl nut perhaps?). Would a bad wheel bearing cause this type of problem?

Lump in a tire- Michelin manufactures their tires to pretty stringent tolerances. I wouldn't think this would be the problem, but anything is possible.

Thanks in advance for any opinions or suggestions offered. :thumb:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
Chain too tight?
If you back the adjusters off a half turn does it make it any better or worse?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
as above and also you have fitted new tyres!!

if the vibe is occurring around 50-60mph its the front out off balance.

if its around 100mph check the rear.

its possible the tyre has not seated correctly or could be a bad tyre too so spin the wheel and check for the tyre rising and falling slightly as you watch the tread from the side.
pay particular attention to the bead area just above the rim as the rim line on the tyre should stay constant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,836 Posts
If it happens at low speeds, then that eliminates tire balance. The frequency may help pinpoint. Like is there a bump with every revolution of the tire or every revolution of the chain. If you have a rear stand, turn the wheel by hand and then with the engine. Not only can you eliminate the tire itself, you can watch the chain and tire.

I'm also a little concerned about the link you put in the chain. That link is a precision assembly and should be done adhering to all the dimentions indicated. Some thing you shouldn't cheap out on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the responses. I am planning on getting back into the bike tommorrow (Saturday).
Chain too tight?
If you back the adjusters off a half turn does it make it any better or worse?

I adjusted my chain to 1 inch of slack, as this seems to be the rule of thumb. However, according to manuals, the suggested slack is more like 30-40 mm (1.2-1.6 inches). This will be the first thing I try as it will be the easiest.
as above and also you have fitted new tyres!!

if the vibe is occurring around 50-60mph its the front out off balance.
if its around 100mph check the rear.

Heh, honestly I am a bit skidish about hitting 100 at the moment :eek: . The bumping occurs even at very low speeds (<10mph). I have had it up to 50-60mph and it still happens, just at a higher frequency.

its possible the tyre has not seated correctly or could be a bad tyre too so spin the wheel and check for the tyre rising and falling slightly as you watch the tread from the side.
pay particular attention to the bead area just above the rim as the rim line on the tyre should stay constant.

When I was initially seating the bead on the back tire there was a small area on one side that really didn't want to pop in. I actually had to put quite a lot of pressure in there to finally get it set. Even once that section seated it still didn't look like it may have been all the way in. However, after sitting around for a couple of week before reinstallation, I checked around the edge of the rim and everything seemed kosher, as though it had worked itself into place. I will inspect the tire from the side while spinning, that's a good idea.
I'm also a little concerned about the link you put in the chain. That link is a precision assembly and should be done adhering to all the dimentions indicated. Some thing you shouldn't cheap out on.

Ya, your right. But dropping $70 on something that amounts to nothing more than a C-clamp just didn't sit well with me.:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
900 Posts
To me your tyres are not seated right, i would let the air out, spray a little wd40 around the rim, then over inflate them till they pop, then drop pressure to correct setting, also with wheel on bike make sur the wheel runs true thin bit of wood, lay on swing arm rest against wheel rim and turn wheel to test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
on the tyre pressure for getting the bead to pop

its not unusual to need 50-60psi to get it fully home.

then set to 42 or what ever you run em at:thumb:

when i worked in a tyre shop some tyres were quite stubborn and a little soap works wonders when fitting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
on the tyre pressure for getting the bead to pop

its not unusual to need 50-60psi to get it fully home.

then set to 42 or what ever you run em at:thumb:

when i worked in a tyre shop some tyres were quite stubborn and a little soap works wonders when fitting.
I run my tires at 32f and 30r, Just makes the bumps a little softer. Info from my racing buddies
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
I run my tires at 32f and 30r, Just makes the bumps a little softer. Info from my racing buddies
It would be more usual to back off your suspension damping and run the tyres closer to the recommended pressures. The result is the same.
The air pressure in your tyres is part of the suspension system.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
When I was initially seating the bead on the back tire there was a small area on one side that really didn't want to pop in. I actually had to put quite a lot of pressure in there to finally get it set.
Did you lube the beads and rims?
Water is all you need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
It would be more usual to back off your suspension damping and run the tyres closer to the recommended pressures. The result is the same.
The air pressure in your tyres is part of the suspension system.
True tires are part of your suspension, But max inflation on tires is usually rated when said vehicle is loaded. Passengers and cargo, And if I remember max cargo and rider weight is 350# and I weigh less that 200#
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
True tires are part of your suspension, But max inflation on tires is usually rated when said vehicle is loaded. Passengers and cargo, And if I remember max cargo and rider weight is 350# and I weigh less that 200#
Max inflation?
The tyre pressures are given for rider only and are designed to keep the tyre at its designed profile.
Some bikes will specify different pressures when two-up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I've convinced myself of what most of you suspected, the tire must not be fully seated. I lifted the front tire then set the tip of a rod such that it was barely touching the surface in the middle of the tire. By rotating the tire I could see that during about 1/4 turn the tire surface touched the rod tip, however, the rest did not. The biggest gap between the rod tip and tire that I observed was a little bigger than 1/16 inch. I then did the same with the back tire and saw pretty much the same thing.

In answer to a previous question, no, there wasn't any kind of lubricating liquid used on the bead when installing the tires. A buddy of mine had a tire changer and I had him put them on for me. I told him that I thought we were supposed to spray some windex or something on there, but he said that it wasn't neccessary. :huh: Yet, the beads seemed to pop into place pretty rutinely when we put the tires on. Besides some very small variation in the distance between the rim and that line on the tire (< 1mm) it looked fine. And they also held air just fine.

So anyway, I tried to remedy the situation using one of the previous suggestions. I let all of the air out of the tire (breaking my valve stem in the process :(), then I took a small screw driver and went around the rim prying open little gaps between the rim and tire so that I could get a bit of soapy water in there. I did this on both sides then aired the tire up to 60 psi. I didn't here any popping sounds or otherwise see anything that would indicate that the tire shifted on the rim at all. Afterwards I redid the rod test that I described earlier. I think that the tire may possibly have gotten better in a few spots but I can't say for sure. In any case, it is still screwed up.

What do you guys think about starting from scratch? By that I mean going around and breaking the bead on both sides of the tire, lubing it up, then resetting the bead again. Is there potential for causing damage to the tire while breaking the bead? Anyone else have any other ideas?

It has also crossed my mind that it may actually be the rims and not the tires. I will check the roundness of the rims tommorrow to eliminate this possiblity.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
In answer to a previous question, no, there wasn't any kind of lubricating liquid used on the bead when installing the tires. A buddy of mine had a tire changer and I had him put them on for me. I told him that I thought we were supposed to spray some windex or something on there, but he said that it wasn't neccessary.
You have a buddy that changes tyres often enough that he owns a tyre changer but he doesn't know you're supposed to lube the beads?
I hope people don't pay this guy money to fit their tyres.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
What do you guys think about starting from scratch? By that I mean going around and breaking the bead on both sides of the tire, lubing it up, then resetting the bead again. Is there potential for causing damage to the tire while breaking the bead?
If your buddy breaks the beads then yes, I'd say there's a chance of damaging the tyres.
If you break the beads properly though there's no problem with breaking the beads and re-seating them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
as you say this is happening a 10 mph and the tyre is only showing 1mm of movement i think your problem is elsewhere.

for it to be the tyre at 10mph it would have to be really bad like an egg etc.

check your new chain and sprockets are fitted correctly as all ready stated.

run it on a stand in gear and see if that shows up the fault.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top