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So did Bush give a speech today? What did he say? How many here are still backing the guy?
 

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I'll back him. I've been to that part of the world and "bullets are just another form of birth control" over there. It does seem to be about two years too late, and we can thank Rumsfeld for that!
 

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Good speech, i agree with him, However, I do think this should have been done a long time ago.
On the other hand, I have not been there.
 

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I'll back him. I've been to that part of the world and "bullets are just another form of birth control" over there. It does seem to be about two years too late, and we can thank Rumsfeld for that!
You really think Rumsfeld is to blame for all of this?


-jh
 

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You really think Rumsfeld is to blame for all of this?


-jh
Yeah, pretty much. Colin Powell, the only part of the administration that had actually been involved in a war in that theater of operations recommended that over 400k troops would be needed for an invasion. Sure we could knock out Saddams half ass military with much less, but a massive amount of troops would be needed to keep the sectarian violence from becoming a problem. Rumsfeld decided to do the invasion with a skeleton crew and look where we are now (TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY PHUCKED!).

I was in Desert Storm where we really were a "coalition of the willing" we had over 500k troops - I think Rummy went in with less than 150k.

It's too late now - there is nothing we can do. Pull out and we're screwed, stay in and we're screwed. The only solution was to not go in the first place - but again - too late now.
 

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I would like to see Bush get his troops, so that there is no one but him to blame when the whole thing goes to hell in a handbasket.

That is a bit mean though, since the "troops" are Americans, with hopes, dreams, and families here. They are sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, and more, and are needed here as well. I really hate the thought of putting 20K more Americans in harm's way just to satisfy some politician's longings.

The Generals should be the ones who say whether or not they need more troops anyway, should'nt they?
 

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20k troops is not going to get it done. That region has been in conflict for centuries and it is not going to change. England has stated they are pulling out this summer. We should have never gone over there in the first place. This is a complete clusterfuk.

Wanna know how much it's costing?


National Priorities Project - Cost of War


Who do you think is going to have to foot the bill? Yup, US, the American taxpayer.
 

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For me it comes down to this:
pull out now, immediately and with no warning.
If in the future it becomes a terrorists nest, flatten the place out on a daily basis until the threat stops.

In the future we should stop the nation reconstruction business. We should limit ourselves to take advantage of black ops groups and take out only heads of groups and governments willing to threaten the US of A. Invasions are too much of a hassle. After a few operations they'll get the message, otherwise just keep taking terrorists out.

Then again all this "new" approach might just be an excuse to drop the ball on the Iraqi government side and when they keep screwing it, the situation will provide an excuse to pull out.
 

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...If in the future it becomes a terrorists nest, flatten the place out on a daily basis until the threat stops.

In the future we should stop the nation reconstruction business. We should limit ourselves to take advantage of black ops groups and take out only heads of groups and governments willing to threaten the US of A. Invasions are too much of a hassle. After a few operations they'll get the message, otherwise just keep taking terrorists out...

quote]

Unfortunately that approach (flattening them) IMHO wont stop the terrorists...it may increase their numbers...which is what I suspect the happened since we invaded. Also world opinion of the US would get even worse considering there are actually Iraqi citizens that are innocent and just to live their lives...imagine bombing a few of their homes.

As far as reconstructing I think we should stop invading so we dont have to reconstruct. My $.02.
 

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[/quote]
Unfortunately that approach (flattening them) IMHO wont stop the terrorists...it may increase their numbers...which is what I suspect the happened since we invaded. Also world opinion of the US would get even worse considering there are actually Iraqi citizens that are innocent and just to live their lives...imagine bombing a few of their homes.

As far as reconstructing I think we should stop invading so we dont have to reconstruct. My $.02.[/quote]

World opinion can't get much worse than it is now.
There are many more terrorist now than before the invasion started, that's for sure. We need to hunt them without regards to other countrie's borders or complaints. The "can I bomb this within your borders?" approach is obviously not working very well. There a thread, take it out NOW.
The US is trying to be too nice to other countries which, willingly or not, are helping terrorist.
War is becoming too soft. War is War. They die or we die. :mad:
 

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onevcs said:
The US is trying to be too nice to other countries which, willingly or not, are helping terrorist.
War is becoming too soft. War is War. They die or we die. :mad:
this is true. we should have taken some real action.
 

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[/quote]
World opinion can't get much worse than it is now.
There are many more terrorist now than before the invasion started, that's for sure. We need to hunt them without regards to other countrie's borders or complaints. The "can I bomb this within your borders?" approach is obviously not working very well. There a thread, take it out NOW.
The US is trying to be too nice to other countries which, willingly or not, are helping terrorist.
War is becoming too soft. War is War. They die or we die. :mad:[/quote]

Actually I think it can get worse and if we start going into other countries without regard to their borders what stops them from doing the same to us...and despite being the world power that we are the US does need to have good relations with some key countries. Also how does that make us any better? Imagine someone from (insert any country here) coming to your house any putting your family at gunpoint or worse because of what they beleive that you may do, any using the argument that the US did it in their country. Given its not likely to happen but it sets a dangerous world precedent in my opinion. I dont have a solution but bombing the heck out of another country is not a path that really leads to an positive end any time soon. We need to learn to fight threats differently so we dont create new enemies in the process.
 

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World opinion can't get much worse than it is now.
There are many more terrorist now than before the invasion started, that's for sure. We need to hunt them without regards to other countrie's borders or complaints. The "can I bomb this within your borders?" approach is obviously not working very well. There a thread, take it out NOW.
The US is trying to be too nice to other countries which, willingly or not, are helping terrorist.
War is becoming too soft. War is War. They die or we die. :mad:[/quote]

Actually I think it can get worse and if we start going into other countries without regard to their borders what stops them from doing the same to us...and despite being the world power that we are the US does need to have good relations with some key countries. Also how does that make us any better? Imagine someone from (insert any country here) coming to your house any putting your family at gunpoint or worse because of what they beleive that you may do, any using the argument that the US did it in their country. Given its not likely to happen but it sets a dangerous world precedent in my opinion. I dont have a solution but bombing the heck out of another country is not a path that really leads to an positive end any time soon. We need to learn to fight threats differently so we dont create new enemies in the process.[/quote]



Yeah, I think you're right. I'm just feeling a bit feisty today.
 

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Now W's asking Congress to come up with a plan for Iraq:

Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours - CNN.com

What leadership!
well, he is right. to face nothing but opposition he is left to expect nothing less than an alternative.

he is not asking for congress to come up with a plan for iraq. he's simply stating that if everyone is against his own plan, then it is expected that they provide an viable alternative that would have a better chance of success.

let's see the facts folks, not a streamlined bash and play on his words.
 
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