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Discussion Starter #1
Ok. Small trunk+big enclosures=

Having problems putting my subs in my car. my 12s require a HUGE box and the tens are small but the 12s box is so damn big, the 10s dont fit.
I remember reading about a filling you can put in a smaller box to make it appear bigger than what it is. I think it was a cotton type-of material that slows sound waves down.

Any ideas. I am desperate as hell. I wasted all of saturday doing math and builiding crap only to find, it is crap!
 

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[Beavis]
Huhuhuhuhuhhuu....he said doing math.....
[/Beavis]
 

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stegen : Ok. Small trunk+big enclosures=

Having problems putting my subs in my car. my 12s require a HUGE box and the tens are small but the 12s box is so damn big, the 10s dont fit.
I remember reading about a filling you can put in a smaller box to make it appear bigger than what it is. I think it was a cotton type-of material that slows sound waves down.

Any ideas. I am desperate as hell. I wasted all of saturday doing math and builiding crap only to find, it is crap!
Stegen, you can try building an isobaric sub box. The theory behind this is that you put 2 subwoofer drivers that are face to face with each other and sealed in a box. One sub is showing from the outside of the box. The other is inside, out of view, but operates in phase with the other sub. The size of the box is much smaller because it doesn't require the space neccesary for 2 subs run seperately. The 2 drivers then move twice as much air as one sub alone. I have one of these in my car. You should look into this as an option. I hope this helps.
 

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stegen : Ok. Small trunk+big enclosures=

Having problems putting my subs in my car. my 12s require a HUGE box and the tens are small but the 12s box is so damn big, the 10s dont fit.
I remember reading about a filling you can put in a smaller box to make it appear bigger than what it is. I think it was a cotton type-of material that slows sound waves down.

Any ideas. I am desperate as hell. I wasted all of saturday doing math and builiding crap only to find, it is crap!
You are going to get much better low end extension with a properly designed custom box. A sealed box typically requires less airspace, but you lose about 3 Db over a ported box.

BTW, the 'fillling' you were inquiring about is called 'Polyfill' and it is available in all craft type stores. Michaels, Hobby Lobby, etc. will all have this product. Recommended start is a LOOSE FILL of each chamber, and listen.
 

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Do yourself a favor and drop one of the sets of speakers...more likely the 12s. I've got one 12 in the back of my car and it hits harder than any other system I've ever had. Plus you'll need room for the stroller...believe me, I know.
Shoulda got a Protege 5 for the family ride too
 

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get a life and keep the distorted ugly loud boom crap in your house.  If another dweeb parks in front of my house with that uuummmph, uuummph crap blasting away, I think Mr BAR may want to check his tires . . . . or maybe his trunk!

You know, not everyone shares your taste (or tolerance) for audio that is untillegible, but louder outside your car than inside (hint: It takes over 60 feet in length to fully develop the frequencies you are attempting to reproduce, guess what: the sixty feet are all outside of your car and the only people who get to 'enjoy' it are not your passengers&#33.
 

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abtech : You know, not everyone shares your taste (or tolerance) for audio that is untillegible, but louder outside your car than inside.
Abtech, I partially agree with you. For me personally, music, sometimes very loud music is my release from the world around me. I have a competition quality system in my truck, and believe me, there is nothing that makes me more furious than a guy in a hoopty cruising residential areas blasting Crap- (The 'c' is rap is silent). I like to crank metal music, i.e. Pantera, Slayer, Mudvayne, Slipknot, etc. but NEVER anywhere near residential areas or heavy traffic. On the Expressway, or unpopulated areas becomes my release. And if a system is done right, the exterior noise levels are minimal. I can hit 146 DB inside my truck, and be less than 70 DB exterior. Not trying to start a war but car stereo guys are a lot like us street smart/safety conscious sport bike riders. A few bad apples spoils it for everyone, and the stereotypes continue...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I dont really listen to rap to much, only old school Dre., Snoop, and Run Dmc. I usually listen to metal or tecno or stuff like the police and bruce hornsby (the softer stuff). I never have it blasting in the res. areas cuz that pisses me off too. I shut it down when I am at a stoplight or going into a hospital zone. I do respect other people around me. Also, I am not just putting subs in, all other speakers are being upgraded as well.
 

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Then I stand corrected. I am an audio engineer (not a 3 week course-certificate engineer either, MS In audio/electronics engineering) and have designed and built several sound systems that you have probably heard at various concert venues and have designed and built several of the studios that churn out the music you listen to. I understand SPL and all of it's positive and negative effects, but have grown very intolerant of people who drive up and down the street playing severely distorted (>20%) audio tracks that sound like total crap and thinking they are cool. I would love to drag a few of these 'cruisers' to one of our venues and force them to listen to some Ricard Strauss at about 140 db broadband for an hour or so and then see how they feel.

If you are conscious of other people's feelings, then that is fine, but if not then I hope your battery dies an ugly, painful death.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
abtech : Then I stand corrected.  I am an audio engineer (not a 3 week course-certificate engineer either, MS In audio/electronics engineering) and have designed and built several sound systems that you have probably heard at various concert venues and have designed and built several of the studios that churn out the music you listen to.  I understand SPL and all of it's positive and negative effects, but have grown very intolerant of people who drive up and down the street playing severely distorted (>20%) audio tracks that sound like total crap and thinking they are cool.  I would love to drag a few of these 'cruisers' to one of our venues and force them to listen to some Ricard Strauss at about 140 db broadband for an hour or so and then see how they feel.

If you are conscious of other people's feelings, then that is fine, but if not then I hope your battery dies an ugly, painful death.
No problem man. I really do understand the HATE you feel for people that park oustide a friends house and wait for them for 10 mins with the stereo cranked. Pisses me off something major. I am VERY considerite of other people when I have a system in my car. When I put my cousins stereo system in, first thing I said is respect other people and told him when not to have it on.
 

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abtech : get a life and keep the distorted ugly loud boom crap in your house.  If another dweeb parks in front of my house with that uuummmph, uuummph crap blasting away, I think Mr BAR may want to check his tires . . . . or maybe his trunk!

Sorry Stegen, nothing personal. I might just agree more with this line of reasoning only because I live across the street from an elementary school where the freaks come out at night. But I'm sure you're not 17 years old and into hanging out in school parking lots at night.
 

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DevilDog : Quote (abtech @ July 13 2003, 4:20pm)get a life and keep the distorted ugly loud boom crap in your house.  If another dweeb parks in front of my house with that uuummmph, uuummph crap blasting away, I think Mr BAR may want to check his tires . . . . or maybe his trunk!

   Sorry Stegen, nothing personal.  I might just agree more with this line of reasoning only because I live across the street from an elementary school where the freaks come out at night.  But I'm sure you're not 17 years old and into hanging out in school parking lots at night.
You have 17yr olds in your elementary school??! I knew our education system was bad, but daaaang







@ the battery comment abtech. I woulda said alternator though, harder to replace
 

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abtech : get a life and keep the distorted ugly loud boom crap in your house.  If another dweeb parks in front of my house with that uuummmph, uuummph crap blasting away, I think Mr BAR may want to check his tires . . . . or maybe his trunk!

You know, not everyone shares your taste (or tolerance) for audio that is untillegible, but louder outside your car than inside (hint:  It takes over 60 feet in length to fully develop the frequencies you are attempting to reproduce, guess what:  the sixty feet are all outside of your car and the only people who get to 'enjoy' it are not your passengers&#33.
 

When I get next to oneof those clowns, I just idle up my 7.3l turbocahrged diesel and the sound goes away. hehehehe
 

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OK Stegen, depending on the impedance of the subwoofer and the amp your using I would say go with (1) woofer. I just did a Sunfire with a single 12' and it had more than enough output for the 'HOT' 17 year old girl that drove it. Her 'expert' boyfriend was even impressed and said it outperformed his (2) 12' prefab enclosure. You will save the space and do not need more than that in a small car. If impedance is correct, you will not lose any output over the two subs because you will quadruple the power going to the single woofer.

GET RID OF THE 6x9's! The are mounted in the rear package shelf and hang into the trunk. The pressure the woofers are creating with wavelenghts from approximately 15' - 56' create a great deal of air movement. That pressure effectively drives the 6x9 cone at those frequencies. So other than a crappy little metal dome mid and tweet you have a heavily distorted midbass.

Remember the simple goal. Clean, Accurate Stereo Music reproduction from 20hz - 20,000hz (though that isn't anywhere near our auditory capability) Music is recorded and played back is Stereo.

Stereo= Left & Right channel. A person is capable of locating the source of a note from around 150hz and above. This has to do with the distance our ears are from each other and wavelength. A good 5.25' component system should give you good response from about 100hz up. Adding these frequencies in the rear of a car only causes problems. The car is full of reflective surfaces, You are surrounded by glass, and the rear speakers normally fire directly at it. There are multiple reflections before you will ever hear anything. These only take away from the original stereo recording. I get questioned often about the people in the rear seat. First, look at your ear. It's shaped to hear things in front of you, in fact it does a terrible job of localizing sounds from behind us. They are better served with a solid soundstage in front, otherwise the poor guys that paid $20 for a nosebleed seat at a concert wouldn't hear the show either.

Now back to the system. The front speakers cover 90% of what you hear, and for the other 10% you add a subwoofer. You don't need a pair of them because:

A. You can't tell location of them because they will play below 150hz. This is also reinforced by the fact that the car is too small to fully develop the waves of these bass notes. Therefore you can run them in Mono.

B. Even if they were to play higher frequencies, you woun't be able to mount a pair in front of you in a car.

C. If you needed a pair the greedy manufaturers would put two per box already to maximize profit. (I hope they don't see this, I'd hate to give them the idea)

5 speakers will play everything you can hear in the manner it was recorded ( this can be good or bad).

Many factory systems consist of a 5.25' in the door and a 6x9' in the rear. This was done to give the minimum frequency response for their cassette decks to sound OK. They aimed for 35-15,000Hz. An 8' woofer was necessary to play down to 35hz, but wasn't easy to fit. someone came up with the idea of 'stretching' an 8' into an oval and the 6x9 was born. The cone area dictates freq response so it was effective. As soon as you install a subwoofer in a correct enclosure in your trunk, a 6x9 is completely worthless. At the time, this wasn't being done and everyone was amazed with how a car sounded and it really kicked off the aftermarket upgrading the 6x9's and adding more power to them. Most people just confused 'Full' sound with 'good' sound. Hell, that's why Bose is in business! You won't find oval speakers in any other arena, home or prosound, unless it's some cool eliptical compression horns.

Straying from the basics of audio and filling in the factory holes doesn't really make a better system, it just sounds different.

Bill
 
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