Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Question for anyone who has removed theirs, was it tight as a nun's nasty ??

I'm trying to remove mine and have removed the 2 pinch bolts and the bolt to the mount underneath but the bloody pivot bolt (thru bolt or whatever else you want to call it) just will not budge.

I'm using the correct 24mm ext hex socket as per the manual and have broken 2 breaker bars thus far so i think i may be doing something wrong.

If it's been tightened with a rattle gun it'd be super tight wouldn't it ? Can i just use a rattle gun to remove it without breaking anything ?

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,533 Posts
I'm going to assume you have the body lifted and all the weight off the swingarm?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
The swingarm pivot nut is torqued to 118Nm/160ftlb which is the second highest anywhere on the bike. So yes, it is tight.
If you've loosened the pinch bolts on both sides then the bolt should turn when you turn one end or the other. Is it turning?
If it is then you should be able to tighten the LHS pinch bolt to hold it in place. If you still can't break it free then try an impact driver or rattle gun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I rang my mechanic and he said the same thing. Prob is it's not spinning with both pinch nuts undone it's stuck tight.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
Neither end turns?
That is odd.
The bolt goes through two steel bushes in the crankcase so I guess it's possible they may be rusted together. You should still be able to undo the nut on the end though.
I think you'll have to try an impact driver or rattle gun to try to break it free.
If that doesn't get it you'll probably have to drill out one end of the bolt.
Or you could split the crankcases and lift the swingarm out in one piece for somebody else to get apart :)
I've said many times that attaching the swingarm to the engine was a really dumb idea with no purpose to it at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
it's possible they may be rusted together.
This is way off topic, and I wouldn't bother with it except that I had a week-long argument with somebody a couple of years ago on this very subject. It's mostly semantics, but I maintain that parts NEVER get rusted together. They get rusted apart. And sometimes the space between them gets jammed with rusted material. But they never get rusted together. :rant:
I've said many times that attaching the swingarm to the engine was a really dumb idea with no purpose to it at all.
What I would like to see is the swingarm attached to the engine, but in such a way that the swingarm rotates around the same axis as the front sprocket. Then chain tension would not change with swingarm position/spring compression.

I suppose it also could be done with a jackshaft on the same axis as the swingarm but that extra drive step would eat some HP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Just to confirm i'm doing it right, I have undone the pinch bolts on both sides and from the mount (same one the rear shock bolts to), no weight on the swingarm itself as it moves freely up and down and using the 24mm hex i'm trying to loosen or crack the SAPB from the non exhuast side of the bike.

Doesn't look like there is any rust at all around the SAPB so any other ideas ?

I'm thinking rattle gun and shake the ****er loose.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
i'm trying to loosen or crack the SAPB from the non exhuast side of the bike.
If it's put together correctly the nut should be on the RHS.
The LHS should be the head of the bolt.
Both are internal 24mm hex.
Why are you only trying to undo the LHS?
Do you mean that you've already removed the nut on the RHS but the bolt won't pull through?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
This is way off topic, and I wouldn't bother with it except that I had a week-long argument with somebody a couple of years ago on this very subject. It's mostly semantics, but I maintain that parts NEVER get rusted together. They get rusted apart. And sometimes the space between them gets jammed with rusted material. But they never get rusted together. :rant:
What I would like to see is the swingarm attached to the engine, but in such a way that the swingarm rotates around the same axis as the front sprocket. Then chain tension would not change with swingarm position/spring compression.

I suppose it also could be done with a jackshaft on the same axis as the swingarm but that extra drive step would eat some HP.
I disagree with the rusting. I've seen _many_ ferrous parts that have become a single homogenous part due to rust. I've seen the same with un-coated aluminium parts immersed in water for long periods.

The swingarm has been done several times but modern bikes are designed to use the squat delivered by the current system so it's actually beneficial.
There really is no reason to pivot the swingarm on the countershaft axis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I've undone nothng except the pinch bolts and lower mount as per the OP..

The LHS will accomodate the hex all the way in but the RHS has what i can best describe as a "collar" about 10mm in which stops the hex tool from going in. I'm assuming this is the end of the bolt and the RHS hex is the nut, is this correct ?

Either way the whole setup should spin freely with both pinch nuts removed shouldn't it ?

Cheers
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
The "collar" is the end of the swingarm pivot bolt.
It probably won't spin "freely" but it should certainly spin before you break a breaker bar. I would expect you would have to tighten the LHS pinch bolt to stop that end from turning while trying to undo the nut on the RHS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,787 Posts
I disagree with the rusting. I've seen _many_ ferrous parts that have become a single homogenous part due to rust. I've seen the same with un-coated aluminium parts immersed in water for long periods.
I don't want to repeat that week-long argument. Suffice it to say that I strongly disagree. Iron oxide is weak and of low density. A single homogeneous part would suggest a strong bond.
Having two parts with a constrained fit can end up as two parts with a very constrained fit when the space between them is filled with that weak, low density oxide. The adjacent surfaces are acually trying to get further apart from each other, not closer together. But they are still two completely separate parts, even if you cannot remove one from the other.
Like I said originally, my point is mosty semantics.

The swingarm has been done several times but modern bikes are designed to use the squat delivered by the current system so it's actually beneficial.
There really is no reason to pivot the swingarm on the countershaft axis.
This has me intrigued. In your opinion, what benefit is there to having variable chain tension? If by squat you mean the compression of the spring (and tire) during accelaration, I would expect that to happen regardless of the details of the drive. Is it not caused by weight transfer?
Or have I misunderstood your point?

Oh, and sorry about the threadjacking.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
I'm talking about unconstrained parts, as in a packet of nails or a can of bolts left in the rain for a few years. I pulled an engine apart once that had been left with the head off in the rain for years. The rings were essentially welded to the bores so strongly with rust that hammering the piston out actually broke the top land off the piston without dislodging the rings from the cylinder walls.

Basically by placing the swingarm pivot at different lengths and heights from the countershaft you change the leverage so as to build more "anti-squat" into the suspension. When you put power into the chain and transfer weight to the rear the suspension actually extends rather than compresses due to the leverage against the chain. You can adjust it to support more or less weight transfer.
It's more complicated than that though :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
857 Posts
Maybe shock the bolt with a ball-peen hammer like you would a tapered ball joint on a car a-arm? That would almost be the same as a rattle gun. Try putting some pressure on it then shock it with the hammer.:idunno:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,034 Posts
Did you have to hold one end to prevent it turning though?
That's the bit I'm finding strange.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
THREAD REVIVAL!!

I'm having some issues breaking the same pivot bolt loose!! :( I'll keep working on it though and let you guys know how it goes.

If there is anyone with any advice on the subject, I'd be glad to hear it!
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top