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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,
I have found after my bike has had a number of problems recently, crash last November, rocker cover gasket, charging problems (see my other post) and now I have found the right side crash bung wouldn't tighten as before.
I took it back to the garage where it last was worked on and they have confirmed my fear; stripped thread.
I have looked on various forums and YouTube and found the best solution is Timesert which my local Honda dealer uses from what I understand but the garage have said that this will de-strengthen that engine mounting point/lug and to instead use a longer bolt with a nut on the end.
Your thoughts/advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Paul
 

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Hi guys,
I have found after my bike has had a number of problems recently, crash last November, rocker cover gasket, charging problems (see my other post) and now I have found the right side crash bung wouldn't tighten as before.
I took it back to the garage where it last was worked on and they have confirmed my fear; stripped thread.
I have looked on various forums and YouTube and found the best solution is Timesert which my local Honda dealer uses from what I understand but the garage have said that this will de-strengthen that engine mounting point/lug and to instead use a longer bolt with a nut on the end.
Your thoughts/advice would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Paul

Use a thread insert, it won't weaken anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks very much Bladeracer. Only problem now is the labour charge for having this done as the engine needs dropping forward I understand.
 

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Thanks very much Bladeracer. Only problem now is the labour charge for having this done as the engine needs dropping forward I understand.

Yes, you will need to have access to the hole as you need to tap it out to a larger thread, then screw the insert in. Obviously the hole in the frame will be too small for this.
You could also drill through the frame and then put a sleeve on the bolt to bring it back down to size.
Or as the shop suggested, drill through and use a nut, this will work fine.
It _might_ be possible to tap the thread from the other side after dropping the radiator and exhaust system but it'd be very fiddly.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What is the difference between tapping the thread from the front side once the engine has been dropped and inserting a new thread using Timesert. I am starting to get confused but I have been up since 5.30am to watch the GP.

I wasn't going to drill anything to put a longer bolt through though as the garage seemed to indicate that the M12 bolt would go through the engine. Please correct me if this is wrong.
 

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What is the difference between tapping the thread from the front side once the engine has been dropped and inserting a new thread using Timesert. I am starting to get confused but I have been up since 5.30am to watch the GP.

I wasn't going to drill anything to put a longer bolt through though as the garage seemed to indicate that the M12 bolt would go through the engine. Please correct me if this is wrong.

I mean _without dropping the engine_ it might be possible to tap the thread for the insert from the left side.
To put a longer bolt through you would need to drill out the remains of the damaged thread. Be sure to use a nut and washer if you go this way.
I personally would go with the longer bolt with nut and washer on the end.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have seemingly not got a thread left in there from what the garage said but to drill out any remaining thread would mean dropping the engine so I might as well go down the Timesert route if this is the case.
 

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What is the difference between tapping the thread from the front side once the engine has been dropped and inserting a new thread using Timesert. I am starting to get confused but I have been up since 5.30am to watch the GP.

I wasn't going to drill anything to put a longer bolt through though as the garage seemed to indicate that the M12 bolt would go through the engine. Please correct me if this is wrong.

The reason you need to drop the engine is that to use an insert you need to drill the hole oversize and tap a larger thread so that you can thread the insert into it to bring it back to the original size. To do this without dropping the engine you would also need to enlarge the hole through the frame which would then be a loose fit on the shank of the bolt, so you would need to use a sleeve to fill the gap.
 

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I have seemingly not got a thread left in there from what the garage said but to drill out any remaining thread would mean dropping the engine so I might as well go down the Timesert route if this is the case.

No, you wouldn't need to drop the engine to drill the thread out as you're drilling it to the same diameter as the bolt you're using.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So I could get someone to drill a 12mm hole to take out any remaining thread. I'm just concerned that damage to the frame may be made.
 

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So I could get someone to drill a 12mm hole to take out any remaining thread. I'm just concerned that damage to the frame may be made.

I wouldn't pay somebody else to do it, and I can't see it damaging the frame. Drop the spacer out first if you prefer but you don't need to. You can probably cut through the threads by hand by turning the drill chuck manually rather than drive it through if you're worried about doing damage.
It'd be unusual for a damaged thread to be damaged so badly that the bolt would go straight through, but it is a possibility. Try it before drilling it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If I get someone to drill the hole will this affect it being fitted with a Timesert in the future?
Sorry for all the questions especially in my post but thank you very much for all of your help.

While I am talking to you, slightly off topic, I am looking for the 2P natural connector to plug a new harness I want to make from the battery to the new Reg/Rec but I can't find the connector anywhere. Can you point me in the right direction please?
 

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If I get someone to drill the hole will this affect it being fitted with a Timesert in the future?
Sorry for all the questions especially in my post but thank you very much for all of your help.

While I am talking to you, slightly off topic, I am looking for the 2P natural connector to plug a new harness I want to make from the battery to the new Reg/Rec but I can't find the connector anywhere. Can you point me in the right direction please?

No, the insert is way bigger than the hole (probably around 16mm) and will be exactly the same to install it at a leter date.

I just cut connectors off old harnesses when needed. Use a probe (grinding a wheel spoke to a flat point is perfect for this) to press the pins out of the connector and press the new pins in place.
Otherwise just use bullet or spade connectors.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That's what I thought about doing. Can get an electrical screwdriver to push back the tabs and release the spade connectors to then bullet to with 12awg wire and an inline fuse holder on the pos side but I'm not sure what size fuse holder/fuse to use.
 

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That's what I thought about doing. Can get an electrical screwdriver to push back the tabs and release the spade connectors to then bullet to with 12awg wire and an inline fuse holder on the pos side but I'm not sure what size fuse holder/fuse to use.

Me either :)
It probably depends on what it is that you're feeding the power through and how much current it draws.
I'd start at about 10amp and creep it up if it tends to blow.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It is a bypass harness from the Reg/Rec to the battery instead of using the main loom to dump the excess voltage much better and not cause problems with heat and bad earths within the main loom where the earths are currently crimped together (crazy idea from Honda).
 

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It is a bypass harness from the Reg/Rec to the battery instead of using the main loom to dump the excess voltage much better and not cause problems with heat and bad earths within the main loom where the earths are currently crimped together (crazy idea from Honda).

The excess voltage gets dumped by the regulator as heat before it ever gets into the harness though.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I thought it also dumps the voltage to ground and the connector has been known to burn out.
The Triumph users have bypassed the main loom and used different connectors on the MOSFET type reg/rec which also produces a lot less heat due to the way it switches on and off.
Some people have used the R1 reg/rec on the Fireblade but not realised when it went bad that the reg/rec used was the same type as the Honda one, i.e. Shunt type. The correct one to go for is the one stamped FH-xxxx to indicate it is MOSFET.
 

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I thought it also dumps the voltage to ground and the connector has been known to burn out.
The Triumph users have bypassed the main loom and used different connectors on the MOSFET type reg/rec which also produces a lot less heat due to the way it switches on and off.
Some people have used the R1 reg/rec on the Fireblade but not realised when it went bad that the reg/rec used was the same type as the Honda one, i.e. Shunt type. The correct one to go for is the one stamped FH-xxxx to indicate it is MOSFET.

I don't know if it dumps voltage to ground as I'm not that bright when it comes to electrics.
I do knonw that running a dedicated earth from battery to regulator can help so perhaps that is the case.
 
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