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Discussion Starter #1
After getting my hindle full system, and pc3r.. I downloaded WarpSpeed's 954 map from the KB. I rode around with it for awhile to see how she rode. It was different, and I expected nice gains. After a few hundred miles I took the bike in to get a dyno. As stock I had 131.7rwhp. After the flapper mod and the pc3r and hindle sys, i only gained 6rwhp!

Whats up with that? Or do I need to spend $300 on a custom tweek to the PC3?
 

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sounds like a good increase to me
 

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I would expect a wee bit more out of it.  I hear mix results on the flapper mod.  I'm expecting to get atleast 10hp after install my pc3r and full arata using Dan Kyles map. Did you get any air/fuel ratio info from the dyno run.  If so I'd try to tweak a bit myself (unless the air/fuel mix is already tweaked)before forking out the dough for a custom map...

My 2¢
 

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A custom map is the only way to go if you are chasing hp figures, and remember that dynos acn all vary with their readouts, even a different operator can get different readings.
 

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you should have gotten more than 6hp... i looking to gain with a full hindle and p3 around 10-12 with a custom map from a local guy that is certified to do custom maps for power commanders. Was going to get p3r but unless i decide to do engine work dont need to really spend the extra cash...

My 2 cents
 

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not bad...here is what I did....

when I was on the dyno I had to do run after run. I had the laptop tapped right into the PCIII and I kept playing with the settings of a map after each run...it worked very good! Also keep in mind that its almost impossible to compare unless you do it in a controlled environment. stock-moded!
 

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FYI, using just the A/F ratios to try to adjust things is not going to work unless you have disabled the PAIR valves. They will pull in fresh air directly from the airbox and throw off your ratios.
 

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lfg929 : FYI, using just the A/F ratios to try to adjust things is not going to work unless you have disabled the PAIR valves. They will pull in fresh air directly from the airbox and throw off your ratios.
good call, I totally forgot to mention that. I had done that on mine as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the info.

I don't have any information on the as far as what the air fuel ratio was during the dyno. I had the same guy dyno it on the same dyno. Different temps though, 1st time was in Dec. 2nd time was last Tuesday the 27th.

It's like pulling teeth to get any information about dyno specifics from the place I went to. They are always too busy with other sh*t.
 

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ViciousRR : After getting my hindle full system, and pc3r..  I downloaded WarpSpeed's 954 map from the KB.  I rode around with it for awhile to see how she rode.  It was different, and I expected nice gains.  After a few hundred miles I took the bike in to get a dyno.  As stock I had 131.7rwhp.  After the flapper mod and the pc3r and hindle sys, i only gained 6rwhp!  

Whats up with that?  Or do I need to spend $300 on a custom tweek to the PC3?
That's so weird! Z-man got 38 hp gains with his set-up.
 

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First of all, more than 4 back to back runs will require about 30 minutes of cool down or you're wasting your time. Secondly, most 'MMI' or similar types (of mechanics) always try to go for strochaic A/F ratio (13.7 to 1) and on the Blade in particular, this is the wrong way to go. You need to be between 12.5 to 1 or 12.8 to 1 max to make the Honda perform. I have seen so many bogus maps based on an overly lean setup that it makes me wonder if these guys have a clue. What works on a Suzuki or Yamaha doesn't usually work on a Honda, and you need to tell the dyno 'person' to shoot for these numbers if he wants to get paid.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
abtech : First of all, more than 4 back to back runs will require about 30 minutes of cool down or you're wasting your time.  Secondly, most 'MMI' or similar types (of mechanics) always try to go for strochaic A/F ratio (13.7 to 1) and on the Blade in particular, this is the wrong way to go.  You need to be between 12.5 to 1 or 12.8 to 1 max to make the Honda perform.  I have seen so many bogus maps based on an overly lean setup that it makes me wonder if these guys have a clue.  What works on a Suzuki or Yamaha doesn't usually work on a Honda, and you need to tell the dyno 'person' to shoot for these numbers if he wants to get paid.
I will go back to the shop and ask them about this. They deal mainly in Ducati stuff. They should have those A/F #'s recorded and saved in the cpu from the dyno. Right??
 

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nedro : Whats up with that?  Or do I need to spend $300 on a custom tweek to the PC3?
That's so weird! Z-man got 38 hp gains with his set-up.  [/quote]
29 actually

Z...
 

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abtech : First of all, more than 4 back to back runs will require about 30 minutes of cool down or you're wasting your time.  Secondly, most 'MMI' or similar types (of mechanics) always try to go for strochaic A/F ratio (13.7 to 1) and on the Blade in particular, this is the wrong way to go.  You need to be between 12.5 to 1 or 12.8 to 1 max to make the Honda perform.  I have seen so many bogus maps based on an overly lean setup that it makes me wonder if these guys have a clue.  What works on a Suzuki or Yamaha doesn't usually work on a Honda, and you need to tell the dyno 'person' to shoot for these numbers if he wants to get paid.
Yep - I TOLD the guy doing my map to go for 12.6 - 12.8 - and that is exactly what he did (I was paying, after all) I would like to know what some of the guys getting custom maps are getting it tuned to. I know one of the guys here in Syd just got a 954 dynoed with a full Micron Serpent thingy, and I know the place that does it insists on a 13.1 ratio. He got 146 rwhp - I wonder if they did it to 13.1 for him, and if they did, how much extra the 12.7 would get..

Z...
 

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abtech : First of all, more than 4 back to back runs will require about 30 minutes of cool down or you're wasting your time.  Secondly, most 'MMI' or similar types (of mechanics) always try to go for strochaic A/F ratio (13.7 to 1) and on the Blade in particular, this is the wrong way to go.  You need to be between 12.5 to 1 or 12.8 to 1 max to make the Honda perform.  I have seen so many bogus maps based on an overly lean setup that it makes me wonder if these guys have a clue.  What works on a Suzuki or Yamaha doesn't usually work on a Honda, and you need to tell the dyno 'person' to shoot for these numbers if he wants to get paid.
Ab...

Your post made me wonder how my map was built.  I called the shop today and they mentioned that they shoot for around a 14 to 1 (as you suggested they might) A/F ratio when building a map for a Honda.  I pretty much read your post to him and he said something along the lines of 'You won't get as much HP at that ratio and you'll burn up the engine', which sounded like to me.  I asked him, 'Well, why would someone who races a 929 and knows a lot about it be so adamant about this ratio?' and his response was, 'He doesn't know what he's talking about'.

I'm definitely not questioning your judgement as this shop is kind of shady.  If my map was built at 14 to 1, how much of a performance gain would I get by having the bike remapped, shooting for the ratio that you suggested?  The bike runs fine now but it would be exciting to ring even more HP out of it.

EDIT: I just spoke with Dan Kyle and he pretty much said the same thing Abtech said. This frustrates me now that my bike probably wasn't mapped correctly and I'm going to see if I can't have them remap it at the correct A/F.
 

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If my memory serves me correctlty. I think Dan said that every ten you added to the power commander , increased the a/f ratio by 1 point ie 14:1 to 13:1 So if that was correct, if you sat down at your comp and went through the map and added 14 to all the figures that should bring your a/f ratio to approx 12.6:1.

That is based on the tuner setting your a/f ratio at exactly 14:1 and with the par disconnected from the exhaust.
Hope this helps and if not correct can someone clarify it.
 

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ER : Quote (abtech @ May 30 2003, 6:39pm)First of all, more than 4 back to back runs will require about 30 minutes of cool down or you're wasting your time.  Secondly, most 'MMI' or similar types (of mechanics) always try to go for strochaic A/F ratio (13.7 to 1) and on the Blade in particular, this is the wrong way to go.  You need to be between 12.5 to 1 or 12.8 to 1 max to make the Honda perform.  I have seen so many bogus maps based on an overly lean setup that it makes me wonder if these guys have a clue.  What works on a Suzuki or Yamaha doesn't usually work on a Honda, and you need to tell the dyno 'person' to shoot for these numbers if he wants to get paid.
Ab...

Your post made me wonder how my map was built.  I called the shop today and they mentioned that they shoot for around a 14 to 1 (as you suggested they might) A/F ratio when building a map for a Honda.  I pretty much read your post to him and he said something along the lines of 'You won't get as much HP at that ratio and you'll burn up the engine', which sounded like to me.  I asked him, 'Well, why would someone who races a 929 and knows a lot about it be so adamant about this ratio?' and his response was, 'He doesn't know what he's talking about'.

I'm definitely not questioning your judgement as this shop is kind of shady.  If my map was built at 14 to 1, how much of a performance gain would I get by having the bike remapped, shooting for the ratio that you suggested?  The bike runs fine now but it would be exciting to ring even more HP out of it.

EDIT:  I just spoke with Dan Kyle and he pretty much said the same thing Abtech said.  This frustrates me now that my bike probably wasn't mapped correctly and I'm going to see if I can't have them remap it at the correct A/F.
Less hp and burn up the engine? That guy is looped. He's thinking you want to go leaner instead of richer. I wouldn't go back there unless you're asking for your money back.
 

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Hmm... does that shop use a DynoJet (DJ) dyno? Are they DJ certified? Do they carry DynoJet gear for sale?

If so, you might want to talk to DJ to put some pressure on the shop to retune your bike properly, and for free.
 

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this is interesting .... the lower the 1st number the riccher correct? 13:1 is richer than 14:1 .... 13 parts air to 1 part fuel? ... that is kinda weird cuz if you have ever played around with an engine that has an adjustment that allows you to richen or lean it while running it really starts to take off when you start leaning it out ..... which brings me to another subject, excessivce fuel in my oil at oil changes

changed every 2000 mi ... i know my bike is running rich as hell cuz you can smell the gas coming out of the tail pipe and see the sutt build up something fierce ... anybody else get very thin oil with strong gas smell?
 

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Nope! Not in the oil. But there's a bit of soot at the tail pipe.

Edited to say:
2 strokes work better as you lean them out. 4 strokes are a bit different. If this were not true, you wouldn't call it 'Lean drop' (a method of tuning). You'd call it 'lean rise'.
 
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