[Billygoat]

Hey, Anyone ever degreed cams before? Think I have megacycle cams in my bike, ready to find out. Have a degree wheel made up and dial indicator.l I've seen basic instructions on how to do this, but.... Anyone know what stock cams are supose to be dialed in at? I'm confused with the starting numbers being .050" or .040" on the dial indicator. Any racer mechanics out there? Mods on engine in my profile.

Thanks

Goat

 

[StrongPerf]

The stock cam timing specs are in my Clymer manual. The timing is listed at 1mm (.039"). 49 state (US) and Europe specs for the F2 are:

IO-15 BTDC
IC-35 ABDC
EO-38 BBDC
EC-7 ATDC

According to Cam math the Intake centerline would be 100.0deg ATDC and Exhaust Centerline would be 105.5deg BTDC.

Nothing was mentiond about the F2 and F3 being different. I'm assuming they are the same. If I'm right you have your stock specs...

Cheers

 

[Billygoat]

Thank-you for the info! My Haynes manual does not have this info. So by checking with these numbers I can find out if my cams are stock, or have been grinded by mega-cycle.
Have you done this degree stuff before? My dial indicator is hard to put on the bucket, because of the limited space. I can rotate the cams to get a reading from closed to open, but once the lobe goes around it strikes the indicator.
Thanks again for the info. The engine is out of the bike, and I'm checking what it is set at now, before putting on the adjustable cam sprockets.

Ron

 

[StrongPerf]

Here are some more specs that might help. Measure from the heal of the cam to the point of highest lobe lift. If it's a stock 49 state or euro cam it should measure 36.140mm-36.380mm intake and 35.3mm-35.54 exhaust. I have degreed cams in cars before but not in bike. I suggest making and extension attachment for your dial indicator that is smaller (thinner) to fit on the bucket bypassing the lobe.

My bike came with slotted sprockets. I'll be degreeing mine just to check where there at.

Check the ends of your cams. Most often cam grinders etch a grind number on one of the ends....

I need to find some timing numbers from some experienced race team or something. I don't want to fiddle with a dyno and trial and error. If you know of some specs I'd like to hear them. I'm guessing Megacycle would know but I hate to ask if the cam is not one of theres...

Let me know how it turns out. I'll keep you posted on mine.

Thanks

 

[Billygoat]

Hey,
Your lucky if you already have slotted sprockets. Mine were hard to find. The dealer in my area said there was no such thing. lol
I have the info from megacycle. I'm pretty sure my cams are not stock, as the lobes are taller (than stock), but lift is same cuz of the center line.
Here are the #'s for 49 state from megacycle
Valve lift Duration (.040)" Lobe centers IO/IC EO/EC
.325 235 100 17.5 btc 37.5 abc
.291 233 105.5 42bbc 11atc

I can give you the numbers for thier dif grinds if u want.
Interesting to see the number dif between clymer/megacycle stock numbers


Ron

 

[StrongPerf]

Yep, those numbers do look just a tad differend from 49 state stock. I plan on just running my 49 state stockers. I was going to start checking mine last night. I got the valve clearance sorted out. I did a quick retorque of the head and found that one head bolt was stripped out! I've got the head off now and I'm shopping for 9mm x 1.25 helicoils... I'll keep you posted.

 

[Billygoat]

Interesting, because megacycle is just giving these numbers as a ref. Maybe this is optimal? The block I'm using is F2, not F3. No speed sensor. How do you use your dial indicator? I mean, is the arm smaller than one used for automotive? It's hard to get on the bucket, that's for sure. Mine has a megnetic base and I mount it on the steel guide over the sprockets.

Later,

 

[Billygoat]

One other thing I noticed on megacycles numbers. They give lobe centers for all their other grinds at 102 and 104.

http://www.megacyclecams.com/catalog/pages/page%2033.pdf

 

[cbr900racer77]

Every megacycle cam that I've ever encountered was measured at 40 thousands lift not 50 like most others (Web, etc.). Give them a call, they are very helpful. I just bought an Erion head with megacycle cams. I called them and they hooked me up with cam specs, timing, etc. She is even sending me the spec card. Good people to deal with.

 

[Billygoat]

Hey cbr900racer77,
what cam profiles did you use in your applications? Did you degree them yourself? My lobes are larger than the specs listed in the haynes book. I have three sets in total, 2-F2 and 1-F3. The ends where the cam sprocket bolts to is different on the F3 cams. I went with the cams with the tallest lobe. They came in a megacycle box, when I bought the engine,crank,pistons and other stuff.

 

[cbr900racer77]

I've got Web cams (55/49 grind)..352 lift/262 dur. The megacycles were a special grind 361 lift/249 duration. I ran the Webs for a couple years and really wasn't impressed with them. (engine did however respond like crazy to nitrous. Would drop a full 7 tenths in 1/8 with just a 60 shot). Anyways, come to find out I had a faulty Schnitz ignition controller. I bought another ignition (V&H powerpak) and ran into couple of engine failures (long expensive story). I haven't tried the megacycles, but plan to with 945 I'm doing now. Back to your situation...You're just gonna have to call them and see if it's actually megacycles that you have. Check your markings (will be along the shaft) against their online catalog and see if they match. If not, you may end up calling around and see if anyone can identify them. I don't have any experience with the 600's (except for routine rebuilds). They are very similiar to the 900RR though. For your dial indicator, use a steel spoke from an old bike...good and stiff and is very small. I looked at your profile and didn't see any engine mods, what all have you done to it?

 

[Billygoat]

1mm overbore
Falicon knife edge crank
springs and valves
heads been shaved, cleaned up,
running full hindle exhaust
F3 carbs and ram air and all the other stuff people "think" make thier bike so fast. lol K&N,dynojet kit, ohlins rear shock, etc

These cams are confusing me. I'll have to inspect them again. Any chance on showing a pic on where the markings are? Is it right on the end of the cam? They all have numbers like R2, R1, etc. Would like to know what they mean even if they are stock. I remember the megacycle box. 179 X 1. That's why I'm trying to check with the degree wheel and dial indicator. To see exactly what I have. This info was not available when I built the engine .
Thanks for the info, sounds like you've done your share of rebuilds.

Ron

 

[cbr900racer77]

Number is stamped right on the shaft in the middle. All stock numbers are made into the cam but these numbers are easy to tell they have been stamped in there after production. Here is pic of stamping (sorry if it's out of focus, wife won't let me use her Canon with dirty hands lol).

 

[cbr900racer77]

Okay, this was too easy..."If" they are megacycle 179X1 cams, they are for stock pistons (but check clearances). Improved mid/top end. 335 lift/250 duration. Lobe centers are 102int/104exh. Checking to see if they are in fact these cams will be easy. With your degree wheel and dial indicator, check when valves open/close. Intake opens at 23btc closes at 49bbc. Exhaust opens at 47abc closes at 21atc. Since you're already running these cams, clearance isn't a problem. Before checking valve opening/closing, I'd pull a cam holder and just visually check cams for the stamping. Then you can double check lobe centers to make sure they are timed correctly (don't for get to use 40 thousandths instead of 50)

 

[Billygoat]

Hey,
Don't see anything like this. Just number or letter, no number X then number. That sucks... The lobes are greater than stock new cams. (F3) but when taking in the centers, they maintain same lift. (maybe 179X2)
I will check with degree wheel. Hopefully today.
This stuff came from HRC, wondering if they didn't stamp it cuz they were trying to cheat? I got the crank with the lot, although it was not in the block yet, same with the oversized pistons. Spring and retainers/valves were forsure changed.
Don't know how megacycle did things back in 92. The crank is engraved, and numbered but a bit more obvious with the weight reduction, and polishing.
The cams have color stamps/dots on them. Yellow and orange. I could send a pic.
Great idea with bicycle spoke!!
The guy I bought the stuff off of back in 98 was bang on with the other stuff I bought. Makes me wonder with these cams. After seeing your pic and the number and all.
With your experiance, adjusting with slotted sprockets to the correct lobe centers, were they initially off, from stock?
It's really cold here today (-32C)
Try to check opening and closing, then I should know. Just have to get the dial indicator on the bucket.
Thanks for your help!!

 

[cbr900racer77]

You could just call around and see if anyone can identify them by the colored dots. I've personally never seen cams marked like that. You're probably right though, someone is probably marking them as "theirs". There are probably only 2 or 3 actual cam grinders. I know megacycle and Web do their own, I "think" Crane does theirs. But ALOT of companies selling cams as their own product. I'd like to see pic of them, though. Can you go over all the markings on it again? Gotta go give a 5 month old her bath...hope you find out something.

 

[Billygoat]

I did the spoke thing, and attached it to the dial. I'm going to try and see when these are opening/closing before pulling the bearing caps off again. I made a bracket to attach the base of the dial indicator. Now to find true TDC. and attach the degree wheel without it touching anything (clutch cover) Was wondering if I could use the oppisite end of my digital caliper to measure depth down the cyln., to get my TDC.
Hear ya on the kids, have 4!!

 

[cbr900racer77]

My buddy made a plate that bolts where valvecover bolts go, it works pretty good. And I think I would stick to the wheel just to be safe. Add more spacers and longer bolt to clear cover.

 

[Billygoat]

That's what I did, cut a plate to use the two end bolts. Hunting in the garage for a longer bolt with the metric thread. How's your nitrous motor going? I've always thought it would be awsome crazy to do this to a bike.
I still can't believe the spoke idea. What was holding me back was the thickness of the tip of the dial indicator. probably weeks. Now I'm back at it again with more hope of checking/adjusting the cams.
One other question: Do you run on the tight, or loose side with oil clearances? The shim under the bucket.

 

[cbr900racer77]

I've got everything but rings, bearings, and rod bolts (arp jacked prices yet once again..grrr). I also have to track down buddy of mine who is an ace welder and fix a small piece on my block. Will have to wait on nitrous for now. I sold the NOS system I had and am going with Speedtech which is quite a bit more expensive. That's fine, it'll give me plenty of time to tune on motor. This is my last RR motor I'm doing. They make killer power but are just not reliable for my budget to sustain (you should see pics of destroyed 997 I did last year) I bought a 93 turbo 9RR disassembled. I'm gonna use the naked frame and work on stuffing an 1100XX motor in it. My best friend has bare block and a head so hopefully it won't be too much trouble. That is way down the road, though. As for nitrous being "crazy"...Oh yeah!! There isn't ANYTHING like that surge when the controller goes to 100%. It seems to pull harder the more you shift. Totally addictive stuff.