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Good question dr. Absolutely stupid and may not even happen. What do you do with 250 some odd criminals? You can argue some are not and maybe true in a very small amount of cases.
Release them into the public? They'll come back to kill again with even more of a vengence now.
Allow them access to American lawyers? That would be a costly circus and in the end most would be released because of the lack of solid evidence. They would all walk like OJ.
I don't think there's a whole lot of choice. Keep them where they are. Would you want them in your neighbourhood? I also understand Obama is exploring other options now because the reality is setting in.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
He will close it. In the greater picture, it is a bone he needs to throw to satisfy the extreme left.
I would have thought the bone is being thrown to governments overseas more than the left in the US. Several of which, including my own Prime Minister have sent official complaints, which is actually highly unusual these days. But seeing as there are currently three or four British citizens in their without charge hardly surprising.

Denzee raises valid points about what the hell you are going to do with the detainees. Send them home and they talk to the international press like their lives depended on it. Keep them there and the bad press continues anyway.

Personally I'd tell George W that we've gifted him a new ranch for his retirement and slam the door shut!
 

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right. that's why everyone in Prison's over her is innocent... we've got the wrong man...

There's a reason they're in there. maybe minute or maybe it's their associations or actions they should have paid closer attention too. but there is a reason.

I'm torn on closing it... i mean i don't want to be mean to anyone, but they're terrorists in there... maybe if we let them go, they won't hurt anyone anymore :rolleyes: :rolleyes: where's the "Dripping with sarcasm" smilie?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Jennis - even the English guy they released last year after four years without trial and no charges or even alleged offences before during or after his capture?

The dripping with Sarcasm smile is being held at Gitmo!!!
 

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yep. even him!!! honestly. i haven't read every article out on gitmo. but i fail to see how detaining terrorists is a bad thing... for any country. I'm not supporting the false imprissonment of anyone from any country. I'm just saying that there's a reason. Suspicion is usually bread out of truth.
 

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So close it. No big deal. It's better for the CIA and military because they can extract informations better from suspects on foreign soils anyway.

Why are folks so fixated on Gitmo and ignore the fact that this is constantly going on anywhere on earth?

Come on folks. It has to be done to protect the US and friendly countries from attacks of any kind.
 

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Come on FB...give them another chance. Especially if they give their word on it. No more violence. They can all go live in Berkeley California.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
yep. even him!!! honestly. i haven't read every article out on gitmo. but i fail to see how detaining terrorists is a bad thing... for any country. I'm not supporting the false imprissonment of anyone from any country. I'm just saying that there's a reason.
Your not supporting false imprisonment but you advocate in the same sentence that even the innocent man is a terrorist by the mere fact that he's in there. If that's the case then why were there no charges, no trial? By releasing him without any further investigation the american military are admitting that there was in fact no reason for him to be there other than false imprisonment.

Suspicion is usually bread out of truth.
So if I suspect you are a terrorist that must be then born out of truth?
This is exactly the sort of thing they used to use to burn witches in the middle ages.

So close it. No big deal. It's better for the CIA and military because they can extract informations better from suspects on foreign soils anyway.
Aka you can torture them. Which is what the US does with it's alliance with Egypt anyway.
It's interesting that you feel Gitmo is no big deal. For many countries Gitmo has been the symbol of american arrogance. By placing itself above international law your government has made a mockery of the very freedoms it claims to promote.

How about they share room with Obama supporters. Up for it Nedro? Are you ready for change?
Really they inmates should be all coming to Republican houses, after all it's the right of america that believes Gitmo should stay open for business.

Now don't get me wrong here people, there is no denying that some of the facilities inmates are indeed extremely dangerous. There is also no denying that some of them are entirely innocent. So for those who fulfill the first category it's absolutely right that they are held in such as manner as to deny any chance of carrying out their acts violence etc.
But...
The way in which Gitmo has been run and in particular the holding without trial, in some cases for over seven years, has lead to the damnation of your fair country by almost every one of the worlds leaders. Including your biggest ally the UK.
It's entirely correct that Gitmo closes, but the inmates must either receive a trial and be sentenced or be released.
 

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Aka you can torture them. Which is what the US does with it's alliance with Egypt anyway. It's interesting that you feel Gitmo is no big deal. For many countries Gitmo has been the symbol of american arrogance. By placing itself above international law your government has made a mockery of the very freedoms it claims to promote.
Why? Because it was out in the open and everybody was able to look at it?

What about the British? Do you think they are not involved in torture? The only difference is that it wasn't reported where, when and who in the Sun or any other paper.

Come on already. Don't be naive.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Why? Because it was out in the open and everybody was able to look at it?
No. Because it breaks International Law. Because it breaks the Geneva convention. Because in eight or so years only one person has been brought to trial. Because its outside the US constitution, allowing detainees to be tortured off american soil and also therefore by-passes any american law.

What about the British? Do you think they are not involved in torture? The only difference is that it wasn't reported where, when and who in the Sun or any other paper.
Actually the UKs complicity in allowing US transporters planes to fly over UK soil taking Guantanamo detainees to egypt to be tortured was widely reported in the UK media. Its how we know the US was taking prisoners to be tortured in the first place.
Our troops have also, as you suggest, been accused of torturing Iraqi prisoners in Iraqi jails. The only difference where is our lads were smart enough not to take as many pictures.
The problem with all this is it has since been discovered that some of the intelligence gathered in egypt has since been used to further the case for stronger anti terror legislation. And we all know how reliable information gained through torture is.

Come on already. Don't be naive.
I think its you who are naive. Our government are running around doing what the hell they want in the name of protection. This is the prime reason given for Guantanamo. To protect you. It undeniable that some of the people in there are extremely dangerous. Fine give them a trial and sentence them. But its also undeniable that some are entirely innocent.
Meanwhile part of this protecting you comes in the form of Anti-Terror laws. Fine you say I've nothing to hide I'm no terrorist. Well under the new laws passed by the senate the moment you march against Obama's new gun laws you could be deemed so.
Take the new Patriot act. This allows any state body to enter your house while you not there or while you are for that matter, without a warrant, and search any aspect of your private belongings.
It allows any state body to access your bank account, your credit cards your emails even to track you as you move around the net. Again without a warrant or even telling or charging you.
It allows any state body to tap your phone, bug your house, your car and your office, to access your medical records, your insurance anything...all without a warrant, telling you why they want the information or even telling you they accessed it.
Again I here you say but I'm not a terrorist.
Well any state body also means the local copper who doesn't like you because you ride a bike...Rosco Peeko Train Sherriff now has the power to find out everything about you. Without having to bring charges, make an arrest or even declare why he's accessing the info. Buddy you just better hope you didn't do his daughter!

Your government has just turned the whole of America into Guantanmo Bay. Think this is BS?
Well since 9/11 the FBI has arrested over 2000 people in relation to events on that tragic day. Thus far only 2 have been charged. No figures are available as to how many have been released or how many are still in custody.

If you think protecting OUR freedom is naive. Then I'll take it as a compliment.
 

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Many points you make are getting me fired up dr.
The Geneva Convention shouldn't technically even apply to the detainees because they are not fighting in uniform for a Countries Government for a specific cause but we apply it anyways because that's the way we are. They are combatants period. Also all of them have had their Military hearing as far as I know and they have established their ties to terrorism. Over half of them have since been released so the system does work. There is also Red Cross people and others there to monitor. That's good enough for me. The treatment they receive there is better than they would get anywhere else. They at least still have their heads.

Do you also realize that these detainees are trained how to act after they are captured because they know all the buttons to push for sympathy. Things like torture and not allowing them praying with their Koran are grossly exagerated to cause outcry.

Then it depends on how you define torture. Is water boarding torture? Some say yes but I say use it if it works. Plus contrary to what you say, torture absolutely gets results if applied properly. We can't even imagine how many plots have been foiled because of information attained through these means. To make up information to please the interrorgators will only bring them more pain when found to be untrue. That is made known to the detainees in advance.

Ask yourself this one simple question. If someone had your wife or child held captive and you had the suspect, what measures would you apply to get the information from this suspect as to where they are? Now apply that to our Armed Forces out there with their lives depending on gathered intellegence.

Now the patriot act. Why am I willing to give up some of my liberties for security? You do it because it is a neccessary tool to fight terrorism. What the hell is the big deal? I don't care what the authorities need to do to keep me safe, bloody do it. Besides, all these programs are monitored and only used where needed. It's not a free-for-all.

Say all you want about W but it's not by chance there hasn't been another terrorist event here since 911.

Wow, that was a big one for me.
 

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Oh please dr, spare me with your whining. Torture happens everywhere and anytime. All that remains is pointing the finger at others. However, usually the ones pointing the most have the most to hide. The next you post is that the British don't use torture to extract information.
 

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I cant understand why more prisons aren't like Guantanamo Bay? that is once a serious case has been put forward and it is passed by a panel of senior judges then the government should be able to employ certain approved tactics to help gain the truth.
i agree that the Geneva Convention shouldn't technically even apply to the detainees because they are not fighting in uniform...

unfortunately the British government has tended to air on the side of caution, although we have had terrorism here in the last few years thankfully nothing on the scale of 9/11, unfortunately i feel until we have a major disaster causing public out cry they will continue to claim the moral high ground avoiding publicly employing methods of torture.
 

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Suspicion is usually bread out of truth.
But holding people indefinitely without trial because of suspicion is not a good thing - certainly not for a country that pretends to be the leading light of the "free world".


Guantanamo - to me its the biggest example of the evil thats corrupting the USA.
Justifying things because we can cry "terrorist".
Torture should not be used, prisoners shouldnt be sent to other places to be tortured, people shouldnt be held indefinitely without trial, using a location to hold them in legal limbo (its not under US law there) - its all wrong.

You might be protecting yourselves from a bunch of half arse terrorists, but you have lost the respect of most of the world including many of your close allies.

I doubt that this has done anything to make the US safer. It certainly has done a huge amount to make America less popular.

I think Obama's move to close it is great and a sign that he actually gives a **** about the image of the US.
As a country you want to lead the world, then do it by example, not by force and fear.
 

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I cant understand why more prisons aren't like Guantanamo Bay?
Because most people in charge of civilised countries realise its immoral.
Capturing people in another country, forcable deporting them and then holding them without trial and torturing them - yes thats considered wrong by most people.
 
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